banner
banner

28 Mar 2024, 18:39 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Concorde Battery (banner)



Reply to topic  [ 109 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Re: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2018, 09:54 
Online


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/19/11
Posts: 3302
Post Likes: +1424
Company: Bottom Line Experts
Location: KTOL - Toledo, OH
Aircraft: 2004 SR22 G2
The early TBM 700’s are definitely becoming attractive from an acquisition cost perspective but I don’t know anyone who has run a TBM for a period would dispute that the mx on these birds is crazy expensive and I’m not talking about engine costs. Lots of the mx seems to be able to be deferred but then it will catch up with you on resale as I understand. My mission would be perfect for a TBM 700A as I don’t really need the higher GW offered in the C2. However the mx costs appear to make it substantially higher total cost of ownership when compared to other entry level turbines.

_________________
Don Coburn
Corporate Expense Reduction Specialist
2004 SR22 G2


Last edited on 13 Oct 2018, 10:43, edited 1 time in total.

Top

 Post subject: Re: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2018, 10:32 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 05/31/13
Posts: 1227
Post Likes: +598
Company: Docking Drawer
Location: KCCR
Aircraft: C425
I've heard the same thing about TBM's although I don't have first hand knowledge. I do know a guy who researched them thoroughly in preparation to buy and even went through initial training. During training he talked to some people about MX and got scared away. He ended up buying a conquest I.

All the "big bore" PT6's like the ones in the PC12 and TBM are roughly double the cost to overhaul compared to a "small bore" PT6 like the conquest. Accessories are double too. For example, a PT6-112 (conquest) FCU is $6500 for OHE but on a -67 (PC12) is like $12K+ I've heard. And in low utilization aircraft the FCU usually needs to be done well before overhaul. Just an example.

_________________
ATP, CFI-I, MEI
http://www.dockingdrawer.com


Top

 Post subject: Re: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2018, 14:07 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/19/09
Posts: 329
Post Likes: +269
Company: Premier Bone and Joint
Location: Wyoming
Aircraft: BE90,HUSK,MU-2
Our company currently operates planes with 6 P&W -21’s, 2 P&W -135’s (on 4 C90A’s) and 2 TPE 331-10’s (MU-2B-25). TAS is about 235-245 (-21), 265-270 (-135), and 300-320 (TPE). Our -21’s have cost $150-200K for OH, we haven’t done the TPE or -135 but expect $250K for the -10 TPE, and $250-300K for the -135. Maintenance on the MU-2 airframe has been roughly 1/2 of the KA planes, but underwriters won’t offer high coverage on the MU-2 like they will for the KA. I would disagree that overhauling a legacy turbine makes no sense. The run-out plane has limited value on the market and if you overhaul the engines (as we have several times) you get to keep operating a plane on which you have been solely responsible for operations and avionics/interior upgrades for many years or in some cases, since the plane was new.

_________________
Thomas


Top

 Post subject: Re: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2018, 23:57 
Offline



 Profile




Joined: 11/22/12
Posts: 2572
Post Likes: +2330
Company: Retired
Location: Lynnwood, WA (KPAE)
Aircraft: 1993 Bonanza A36TN
Username Protected wrote:
I'm thinking about the older TBM's … But an overhaul on that is a $500K deal ... and they can not be put on MORE. … that kind overhaul cost at 3600hrs...
They don't need MORE, TBO is not regulatory for SETP like the TBM. Craig Craft get 10,000-14,000 hours out of his PT6s.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 17 Oct 2018, 08:23 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 05/23/08
Posts: 6059
Post Likes: +702
Location: CMB7, Ottawa, Canada
Aircraft: TBM - C185 - T206
OWT
Not anymore than any other newer turboprop that it competes with.
The TBM mx as evolved a lot over the years as fleet is closing on 1000 aircraft worldwide.

-gears are on long life and are inspections only.
-actuators are 10 years now.
-inspections intervals are on 200 hrs basis now.
-brakes are inspection & repair only and no need to be overhauled.
-fuselage inspection went from 10 to 14 years interval and a lot of parts like hoses are inspection only.

Most parts in North America are shipped directly from Pompano beach, FL.
Lots of parts now can be sourced or overhauled directly from US suppliers.

Any of these inspection don't need to be followed as part 91 in the US and I would say most 700A are operating like this.



Username Protected wrote:
Adam, There was some discussion on the Aerostar board from a previous TBM700 owner.
The air frame maintenance on the TBM was outrageous. Everything was single sourced from the factory in France and things like:

replacement fuel gauge was 15K.
Mandatory window head resistance test, came in 2% low, 30K for a windshield.
Torque Gauge 9K etc.. etc...

_________________
Former Baron 58 owner.
Pistons engines are for tractors.

Marc Bourdon


Top

 Post subject: Re: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 17 Oct 2018, 11:36 
Online


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 08/24/13
Posts: 8408
Post Likes: +3662
Company: Aviation Tools / CCX
Location: KSMQ New Jersey
Aircraft: TBM700C2
Username Protected wrote:
-gears are on long life and are inspections only.
-actuators are 10 years now.
-inspections intervals are on 200 hrs basis now.
-brakes are inspection & repair only and no need to be overhauled.
-fuselage inspection went from 10 to 14 years interval and a lot of parts like hoses are inspection only.

Most parts in North America are shipped directly from Pompano beach, FL.
Lots of parts now can be sourced or overhauled directly from US suppliers.

Any of these inspection don't need to be followed as part 91 in the US and I would say most 700A are operating like this.


Marc,

I'm looking at a 700A that still has the original gear actuators (7 year), doesn't look like they have ever been touched.

I suppose the worst it could be is $44,400 for 3 new 10 year actuators if none of them were acceptable cores.

How do they usually fail? Do they start leaking?


Top

 Post subject: Re: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 17 Oct 2018, 12:49 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 05/23/08
Posts: 6059
Post Likes: +702
Location: CMB7, Ottawa, Canada
Aircraft: TBM - C185 - T206
They are usually fine if they don't leak until you take them apart for Ovhl then they have corrosion if the plane as stayed outside or in FL and cannot be reused as cores.
Never heard of any failing.
I know of some on 1991 A models that are still original.



Username Protected wrote:
-gears are on long life and are inspections only.
-actuators are 10 years now.
-inspections intervals are on 200 hrs basis now.
-brakes are inspection & repair only and no need to be overhauled.
-fuselage inspection went from 10 to 14 years interval and a lot of parts like hoses are inspection only.

Most parts in North America are shipped directly from Pompano beach, FL.
Lots of parts now can be sourced or overhauled directly from US suppliers.

Any of these inspection don't need to be followed as part 91 in the US and I would say most 700A are operating like this.


Marc,

I'm looking at a 700A that still has the original gear actuators (7 year), doesn't look like they have ever been touched.

I suppose the worst it could be is $44,400 for 3 new 10 year actuators if none of them were acceptable cores.

How do they usually fail? Do they start leaking?

_________________
Former Baron 58 owner.
Pistons engines are for tractors.

Marc Bourdon


Top

 Post subject: Re: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 17 Oct 2018, 13:20 
Online


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 08/24/13
Posts: 8408
Post Likes: +3662
Company: Aviation Tools / CCX
Location: KSMQ New Jersey
Aircraft: TBM700C2
Username Protected wrote:

Marc,

I'm looking at a 700A that still has the original gear actuators (7 year), doesn't look like they have ever been touched.

I suppose the worst it could be is $44,400 for 3 new 10 year actuators if none of them were acceptable cores.

How do they usually fail? Do they start leaking?


Thanks Marc

Top

 Post subject: Re: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2020, 07:20 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 6322
Post Likes: +5520
Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
I mean, crazy value. Yeah, she needs ADS-B, but a friggin Dash 10 engined Merlin III for $200K? For less than $300K, you're in a 285kts plane that can go 2800nm. Bang for buck ratio is insane:

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/149489657/1973-fairchild-merlin-iii

_________________
Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2020, 08:38 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/30/15
Posts: 1697
Post Likes: +1712
Location: Charlotte
Aircraft: Avanti-Citabria
Username Protected wrote:
I mean, crazy value. Yeah, she needs ADS-B, but a friggin Dash 10 engined Merlin III for $200K? For less than $300K, you're in a 285kts plane that can go 2800nm. Bang for buck ratio is insane:

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/149489657/1973-fairchild-merlin-iii


bet a plug nickel I could buy it tomorrow for $150....however....purchase price is just the price of admission...kinda like my wife's $5,000 horse

Still mighty tempting...cept for the unknowns

_________________
I wanna go phastR.....and slowR


Top

 Post subject: Re: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2020, 08:41 
Online


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/19/11
Posts: 3302
Post Likes: +1424
Company: Bottom Line Experts
Location: KTOL - Toledo, OH
Aircraft: 2004 SR22 G2
Username Protected wrote:
I mean, crazy value. Yeah, she needs ADS-B, but a friggin Dash 10 engined Merlin III for $200K? For less than $300K, you're in a 285kts plane that can go 2800nm. Bang for buck ratio is insane:

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/149489657/1973-fairchild-merlin-iii


bet a plug nickel I could buy it tomorrow for $150....however....purchase price is just the price of admission...kinda like my wife's $5,000 horse

Still mighty tempting...cept for the unknowns


Smells like another multi-year tprop project to me. It could be free to buy and still eat you alive. What do OH’s on dash 10’s run?
_________________
Don Coburn
Corporate Expense Reduction Specialist
2004 SR22 G2


Top

 Post subject: Re: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2020, 09:22 
Online


 Profile




Joined: 06/17/14
Posts: 4893
Post Likes: +1862
Location: KJYO
Aircraft: C-182, GA-7
Username Protected wrote:
The low cost king air's are slower than the aerostar I'm flying now...
<snip>

:bugeye: :lol: :coffee:

I occasionally fly an Aerostar with an instructor and it is insane how fast that little plane can go.
...but that nosewheel steering switch takes a few landing cycles and about 20-30 minutes of taxiing to get used to the first time.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2020, 09:31 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 11/22/08
Posts: 2914
Post Likes: +921
Company: USAF Propulsion Laboratory
Location: Dayton, OH
Aircraft: PA24, AEST 680, 421
Username Protected wrote:
I mean, crazy value. Yeah, she needs ADS-B, but a friggin Dash 10 engined Merlin III for $200K? For less than $300K, you're in a 285kts plane that can go 2800nm. Bang for buck ratio is insane:

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/149489657/1973-fairchild-merlin-iii

The engines are high time. Maybe you get lucky and fly far beyond TBO. Otherwise it will be expensive. It is a crazy price. Like some of the Citations out there.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2020, 09:38 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 11/08/12
Posts: 12798
Post Likes: +5224
Location: Jackson, MS (KHKS)
Aircraft: 1961 Cessna 172
Username Protected wrote:
It could be free to buy and still eat you alive. What do OH’s on dash 10’s run?


n/a You would buy somebody else's high time motors with 600 hours left.

Agree everything else could eat you alive.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2020, 09:47 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 02/09/09
Posts: 5550
Post Likes: +2503
Location: Owosso, MI (KRNP)
Aircraft: 1969 Bonanza V35A
The Merlin series aircraft are a great airplane, but like the MU-2, they are not for the guy that's going to fly it once a month. I have about 3000 hours in the long body Merlin's and have taught about 30-40 people to fly them. They are far from an airplane that you go to FlightSafety and then jump in the airplane and fly it home. If you do that, you'll find yourself in a lot of trouble.

But, once you truly learn to fly it, it's an awesome airplane with incredible performance. There is still it no true replacement for the long body airplanes that are as capable and as efficient. If you find a pilot that says they hate the Merlin/Metro series, then they never really learned to fly it and fought it their whole "career" in the type.

Look at the spar AD very close before purchasing. While the airplane will not come apart, it's about 500 man hours for a shop that did a significant number of the repairs. The company I worked for was doing 1:1 customer:ours and were turning an airplane out in about two weeks!


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 109 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024

.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.aircraftassociates-85x50.png.
.camguard.jpg.
.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.aircraftferry-85x50.jpg.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.tat-85x100.png.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.Latitude.jpg.
.tempest.jpg.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.pure-medical-85x150.png.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.avionwealth-85x50.png.
.ei-85x150.jpg.
.aeroled-85x50-2022-12-06.jpg.
.Genesys_85x50.jpg.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.cav-85x50.jpg.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.lucysaviation-85x50.png.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.one-mile-up-85x100.png.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.kingairacademy-85x100.png.
.chairmanaviation-85x50.jpg.
.Foreflight_85x50_color.png.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.avfab-85x50-2018-12-04.png.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.midwest2.jpg.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.Marsh.jpg.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.daytona.jpg.
.Wingman 85x50.png.
.Rocky-Mountain-Turbine-85x100.jpg.
.SCA.jpg.
.concorde.jpg.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.dbm.jpg.
.AAI.jpg.