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16 Nov 2018, 05:30 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Greenwich AeroGroup



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 Post subject: Re: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2018, 09:54 
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Joined: 12/19/11
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Company: Bottom Line Experts
Location: KTOL - Toledo, OH
Aircraft: 2013 SR22T G5
The early TBM 700’s are definitely becoming attractive from an acquisition cost perspective but I don’t know anyone who has run a TBM for a period would dispute that the mx on these birds is crazy expensive and I’m not talking about engine costs. Lots of the mx seems to be able to be deferred but then it will catch up with you on resale as I understand. My mission would be perfect for a TBM 700A as I don’t really need the higher GW offered in the C2. However the mx costs appear to make it substantially higher total cost of ownership when compared to other entry level turbines.

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Don Coburn
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2013 SR22T G5


Last edited on 13 Oct 2018, 10:43, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2018, 10:32 
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Aircraft: C425
I've heard the same thing about TBM's although I don't have first hand knowledge. I do know a guy who researched them thoroughly in preparation to buy and even went through initial training. During training he talked to some people about MX and got scared away. He ended up buying a conquest I.

All the "big bore" PT6's like the ones in the PC12 and TBM are roughly double the cost to overhaul compared to a "small bore" PT6 like the conquest. Accessories are double too. For example, a PT6-112 (conquest) FCU is $6500 for OHE but on a -67 (PC12) is like $12K+ I've heard. And in low utilization aircraft the FCU usually needs to be done well before overhaul. Just an example.

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 Post subject: Re: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2018, 14:07 
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Joined: 12/19/09
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Company: Premier Bone and Joint
Location: Wyoming
Aircraft: BE90,HUSK,MU-2
Our company currently operates planes with 6 P&W -21’s, 2 P&W -135’s (on 4 C90A’s) and 2 TPE 331-10’s (MU-2B-25). TAS is about 235-245 (-21), 265-270 (-135), and 300-320 (TPE). Our -21’s have cost $150-200K for OH, we haven’t done the TPE or -135 but expect $250K for the -10 TPE, and $250-300K for the -135. Maintenance on the MU-2 airframe has been roughly 1/2 of the KA planes, but underwriters won’t offer high coverage on the MU-2 like they will for the KA. I would disagree that overhauling a legacy turbine makes no sense. The run-out plane has limited value on the market and if you overhaul the engines (as we have several times) you get to keep operating a plane on which you have been solely responsible for operations and avionics/interior upgrades for many years or in some cases, since the plane was new.

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 Post subject: Re: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2018, 23:57 
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Company: Retired
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Aircraft: TN36, building Evo
Username Protected wrote:
I'm thinking about the older TBM's … But an overhaul on that is a $500K deal ... and they can not be put on MORE. … that kind overhaul cost at 3600hrs...
They don't need MORE, TBO is not regulatory for SETP like the TBM. Craig Craft get 10,000-14,000 hours out of his PT6s.


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 Post subject: Re: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 17 Oct 2018, 08:23 
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Location: CMB7, Ottawa, Canada
Aircraft: TBM - C185
OWT
Not anymore than any other newer turboprop that it competes with.
The TBM mx as evolved a lot over the years as fleet is closing on 1000 aircraft worldwide.

-gears are on long life and are inspections only.
-actuators are 10 years now.
-inspections intervals are on 200 hrs basis now.
-brakes are inspection & repair only and no need to be overhauled.
-fuselage inspection went from 10 to 14 years interval and a lot of parts like hoses are inspection only.

Most parts in North America are shipped directly from Pompano beach, FL.
Lots of parts now can be sourced or overhauled directly from US suppliers.

Any of these inspection don't need to be followed as part 91 in the US and I would say most 700A are operating like this.



Username Protected wrote:
Adam, There was some discussion on the Aerostar board from a previous TBM700 owner.
The air frame maintenance on the TBM was outrageous. Everything was single sourced from the factory in France and things like:

replacement fuel gauge was 15K.
Mandatory window head resistance test, came in 2% low, 30K for a windshield.
Torque Gauge 9K etc.. etc...

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Former Baron 58 owner.
Pistons engines are for tractors.

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 Post subject: Re: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 17 Oct 2018, 11:36 
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Joined: 08/24/13
Posts: 1587
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Company: Aviation Tools / Avionics One
Location: KSMQ New Jersey
Aircraft: Socata Trinidad TB20
Username Protected wrote:
-gears are on long life and are inspections only.
-actuators are 10 years now.
-inspections intervals are on 200 hrs basis now.
-brakes are inspection & repair only and no need to be overhauled.
-fuselage inspection went from 10 to 14 years interval and a lot of parts like hoses are inspection only.

Most parts in North America are shipped directly from Pompano beach, FL.
Lots of parts now can be sourced or overhauled directly from US suppliers.

Any of these inspection don't need to be followed as part 91 in the US and I would say most 700A are operating like this.


Marc,

I'm looking at a 700A that still has the original gear actuators (7 year), doesn't look like they have ever been touched.

I suppose the worst it could be is $44,400 for 3 new 10 year actuators if none of them were acceptable cores.

How do they usually fail? Do they start leaking?


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 Post subject: Re: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 17 Oct 2018, 12:49 
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Joined: 05/23/08
Posts: 5741
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Location: CMB7, Ottawa, Canada
Aircraft: TBM - C185
They are usually fine if they don't leak until you take them apart for Ovhl then they have corrosion if the plane as stayed outside or in FL and cannot be reused as cores.
Never heard of any failing.
I know of some on 1991 A models that are still original.



Username Protected wrote:
-gears are on long life and are inspections only.
-actuators are 10 years now.
-inspections intervals are on 200 hrs basis now.
-brakes are inspection & repair only and no need to be overhauled.
-fuselage inspection went from 10 to 14 years interval and a lot of parts like hoses are inspection only.

Most parts in North America are shipped directly from Pompano beach, FL.
Lots of parts now can be sourced or overhauled directly from US suppliers.

Any of these inspection don't need to be followed as part 91 in the US and I would say most 700A are operating like this.


Marc,

I'm looking at a 700A that still has the original gear actuators (7 year), doesn't look like they have ever been touched.

I suppose the worst it could be is $44,400 for 3 new 10 year actuators if none of them were acceptable cores.

How do they usually fail? Do they start leaking?

_________________
Former Baron 58 owner.
Pistons engines are for tractors.

Marc Bourdon


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 Post subject: Re: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 17 Oct 2018, 13:20 
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Joined: 08/24/13
Posts: 1587
Post Likes: +404
Company: Aviation Tools / Avionics One
Location: KSMQ New Jersey
Aircraft: Socata Trinidad TB20
Username Protected wrote:

Marc,

I'm looking at a 700A that still has the original gear actuators (7 year), doesn't look like they have ever been touched.

I suppose the worst it could be is $44,400 for 3 new 10 year actuators if none of them were acceptable cores.

How do they usually fail? Do they start leaking?


Thanks Marc

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