banner
banner

16 Nov 2018, 06:25 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Greenwich AeroGroup



Reply to topic  [ 83 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2018, 14:01 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile

Joined: 11/08/13
Posts: 1022
Post Likes: +373
Location: KCRQ
Aircraft: Breeezy, 182,601P
Whats the next step up from an Aerostar for 2 and occasionally 4 people.

The low cost king air's are slower than the aerostar I'm flying now...

Seems like the TPE 331's have a real operational cost advantage....

The C441 or commander 1000 would be nice, but probably more than the 600K limit.

So I think the choices are short body MU2, Commanders (various) and maybe the Merlin...

I'd guess operating costs are similar, so what is fastest?
What has the highest cabin differential pressure....

If I thought the eclipse would continue to be supported, that might fit too, alas I think its going to be an orphan...


Top

 Post subject: Re: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2018, 14:17 
Offline



User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: 05/23/13
Posts: 1949
Post Likes: +1191
Company: Jet Acquisitions, LLC
Location: Georgetown, Texas 512-688-5248 chip@jetacq.com
Paul, the choices you mentioned all have striking yet different advantages...

The MU2 is hands down the best from a speed and efficiency standpoint.

The Merlin IIIB has the best cabin and 7.0 psi pressurization.

The Commander is hands down the most fun to fly... of any turboprop.

Pros and Cons

The MU2 has a small wing, fast and efficient, nimble, fun to fly... Cons- fly it like a jet or bad things might happen.

The Merlin IIIB has a big cabin and great ramp presence... Cons- not much fun to fly... maybe the least fun to fly turboprop.

The Commander has a big wing, stable, still very fast (assuming -10) excellent support and has an iconic following. Cons- it's so ugly it's cute.

My .02 for an owner flown bird you cannot beat the Commander! Get a 690B with -10 conversion and the spar replaced.

Whatever you buy, hire an expert to represent you... any of these airplanes can bite you to the tune of $50k, $100k even $150k... a good acquisition guy will make sure you buy the right airplane at the right price from the right seller.

Remember, in most aircraft deals someone is getting paid, you want that guy to be paid by you and only you.

(this isn't a commercial, as we do not acquire any of the aircraft you are interested in)

_________________
Chip McClure
Jet Acquisitions
chip@jetacq.com

Encourage and Protect.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2018, 14:23 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: 12/19/11
Posts: 2558
Post Likes: +772
Company: Bottom Line Experts
Location: KTOL - Toledo, OH
Aircraft: 2013 SR22T G5
Paul,

It seems like MU2 short body seems to win the bang-for-the-buck in the low end tprop market, if that's your cup of tea. Besides the Commander and Merlin, the other tprops that approach that price range are Jetprop and the occasional Meridian that you find in the $600-700K price range. Those won't be as fast as MU2 but the opex will be quite a bit lower. The Jetprop-35 burns 32 gph with about 250-260 kts cruise. Meridian is more like 40-42 gph at 260-270 kts cruise.

_________________
Don Coburn
Corporate Expense Reduction Specialist
2013 SR22T G5


Top

 Post subject: Re: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2018, 14:35 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile

Joined: 12/23/11
Posts: 1018
Post Likes: +602
Aircraft: 210
For 2 to 4 people why not a Silver Eagle?


Top

 Post subject: Re: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2018, 14:37 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: 12/19/11
Posts: 2558
Post Likes: +772
Company: Bottom Line Experts
Location: KTOL - Toledo, OH
Aircraft: 2013 SR22T G5
Username Protected wrote:
For 2 to 4 people why not a Silver Eagle?


He's looking for something faster than A*, which a Silver Eagle is definitely not.

_________________
Don Coburn
Corporate Expense Reduction Specialist
2013 SR22T G5


Top

 Post subject: Re: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2018, 14:39 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: 12/19/11
Posts: 2558
Post Likes: +772
Company: Bottom Line Experts
Location: KTOL - Toledo, OH
Aircraft: 2013 SR22T G5
Here's an absolute cherry of a 690B, although I doubt she's going to be in the sub $600K price range...

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/25298703/1979-commander-690b

Not knowing much about the 690 market, what would you guess the market value of this one to be Chip?

_________________
Don Coburn
Corporate Expense Reduction Specialist
2013 SR22T G5


Top

 Post subject: Re: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2018, 14:50 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile

Joined: 10/21/12
Posts: 1374
Post Likes: +305
Location: SW USA
Aircraft: Lowly renter
Username Protected wrote:
The Commander is hands down the most fun to fly... of any turboprop.
...
Cons- not much fun to fly... maybe the least fun to fly turboprop.


I would say the opposite is true. The Commander is easy to fly but I wouldn't call it fun. Kind of boring, actually. The Merlin/Metro is the most fun because you really need to have your head in the game.

Anyway...just opinions.

_________________
Signature intentionally left blank. Do not read this.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2018, 14:55 
Offline


 Profile

Joined: 08/09/11
Posts: 680
Post Likes: +420
Location: KAPF KPIA
Aircraft: AC90 AC50
Username Protected wrote:
Here's an absolute cherry of a 690B, although I doubt she's going to be in the sub $600K price range...

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/25298703/1979-commander-690b

Not knowing much about the 690 market, what would you guess the market value of this one to be Chip?


Don, I know you asked Chip, but the ask price is more than double the $600k mark last time I checked. I flew it to OSH among other places, it’s nice.

I just bought a 690B with all the right stuff but no panel to speak of. It’s a $700k plane with everything dialed in and done. So if one chooses to put $500k into the panel; that’s how they get to $1.2+ In my experience.

It’s usually not the price of getting into planes that’s the problem; it’s the cost of staying in the game.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2018, 15:45 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile

Joined: 11/08/12
Posts: 2979
Post Likes: +983
Location: San Carlos, CA - KSQL
Aircraft: Mitsubishi MU-2B-40
Username Protected wrote:
Seems like the TPE 331's have a real operational cost advantage....

This is true from both the engine reserve aspect as well as op cost.

Quote:
So I think the choices are short body MU2, Commanders (various) and maybe the Merlin...

These all have somewhat different capabilities and other characteristics, too. Are you at a short field? Don’t get the Merlin. Can you get a big hangar? If not, the Commander (nor Merlin) may not be for you. Where you’re located relative to service centers may also hold some sway. The Mits requires twin experience (you have with the A*) and annual training (though probably all would, just insurance would mandate it instead of the FAA). Check out useful load, single engine performance relative to where you are based, etc. Keep in mind the Mits single engine performance is better with flaps than without (for Vxse, which is what matters to clear obstacles/terrain), so it does a little better than most published numbers for ft/nm gradients. But if single engine climb is a significant issue for you, Commander wins that.

I’m partial to the Mits, obviously, but it’s not the right thing for everyone. Pluses are great support, reasonable maintenance (relative to the class of airplane - they’ll all be more than your A*), built like a tank, easy to hangar, ease of entry. Cons are it’s loud on the ground, has some ground handling gotchas if you’re not aware of them, and lack of autopilot upgrade option.

_________________
-Jon C.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2018, 15:52 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile

Joined: 11/08/13
Posts: 1022
Post Likes: +373
Location: KCRQ
Aircraft: Breeezy, 182,601P
MU2 > lack of autopilot upgrade option.

I saw some discussion about getting the GFC-600 certified for this airplane.
Any news on that?

The commanders seem to get an Stec digital AP, don't now about the Merlin, probably least likely given the number of airframes...


Top

 Post subject: Re: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2018, 16:02 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile

Joined: 11/08/12
Posts: 2979
Post Likes: +983
Location: San Carlos, CA - KSQL
Aircraft: Mitsubishi MU-2B-40
Username Protected wrote:
MU2 > lack of autopilot upgrade option.

I saw some discussion about getting the GFC-600 certified for this airplane.
Any news on that?

Nothing concrete. It’s supposedly being discussed. But I’m firmly in the “I will believe it when I see it” camp, if I can’t write a check to an installer and get it today, then it’s vapor ware... that said, I also really really hope it does come to pass.

_________________
-Jon C.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2018, 16:04 
Offline



User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: 05/23/13
Posts: 1949
Post Likes: +1191
Company: Jet Acquisitions, LLC
Location: Georgetown, Texas 512-688-5248 chip@jetacq.com
Username Protected wrote:
Don, I know you asked Chip, but the ask price is more than double the $600k mark last time I checked. I flew it to OSH among other places, it’s nice.

I just bought a 690B with all the right stuff but no panel to speak of. It’s a $700k plane with everything dialed in and done. So if one chooses to put $500k into the panel; that’s how they get to $1.2+ In my experience.

It’s usually not the price of getting into planes that’s the problem; it’s the cost of staying in the game.


And if you decide on a Commander, this is the guy to hire to represent you!

:dance: :dance:

_________________
Chip McClure
Jet Acquisitions
chip@jetacq.com

Encourage and Protect.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2018, 16:05 
Offline



User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: 05/23/13
Posts: 1949
Post Likes: +1191
Company: Jet Acquisitions, LLC
Location: Georgetown, Texas 512-688-5248 chip@jetacq.com
Username Protected wrote:
The Commander is hands down the most fun to fly... of any turboprop.
...
Cons- not much fun to fly... maybe the least fun to fly turboprop.


I would say the opposite is true. The Commander is easy to fly but I wouldn't call it fun. Kind of boring, actually. The Merlin/Metro is the most fun because you really need to have your head in the game.

Anyway...just opinions.


That's a very good point! Plus, you can cancel that gym membership and style have forearms like Popeye! :lol:
_________________
Chip McClure
Jet Acquisitions
chip@jetacq.com

Encourage and Protect.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2018, 16:09 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile

Joined: 11/08/13
Posts: 1022
Post Likes: +373
Location: KCRQ
Aircraft: Breeezy, 182,601P
>Are you at a short field?
I'm at KCRQ so short field is not a big issue.

Given that,one of my normal trips used to be to KSQL, alas I don't do that in the A* and end up at Hayward. So getting back into KSQL would be nice.
(My son and daughter in law live in dogpatch)


Top

 Post subject: Re: Best T-prop <600K MU2, Commander, Merlin....???
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2018, 16:29 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: 12/19/11
Posts: 2558
Post Likes: +772
Company: Bottom Line Experts
Location: KTOL - Toledo, OH
Aircraft: 2013 SR22T G5
Username Protected wrote:
Don, I know you asked Chip, but the ask price is more than double the $600k mark last time I checked. I flew it to OSH among other places, it’s nice.

I just bought a 690B with all the right stuff but no panel to speak of. It’s a $700k plane with everything dialed in and done. So if one chooses to put $500k into the panel; that’s how they get to $1.2+ In my experience.

It’s usually not the price of getting into planes that’s the problem; it’s the cost of staying in the game.


$1.2M for a 690B? No thanks. It's beautiful but for that coin, there are too many other good choices, IMO...

_________________
Don Coburn
Corporate Expense Reduction Specialist
2013 SR22T G5


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 83 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2018

.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.textron-85x200-2018-07-19.jpg.
.lopresti_85x50.jpg.
.ForeFlight.jpeg.
.dshannon.jpg.
.Marsh.jpg.
.Expert_Aircraft_Solution_85x50.jpg.
.westsky.jpg.
.teebee.png.
.jetfuelx-85x50.jpg.
.Electroair.jpg.
.Davis_Aviation_85x50.jpg.
.concorde-2017-11-01.jpg.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.methodseven-85x50.jpg.
.chairmanaviation-85x50.jpg.
.SCA.jpg.
.heartlandsm.jpg.
.Outright_85_50.png.
.aps-85x150.jpg.
.KalAir_Black.jpg.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.airpower-85x50.jpg.
.selectairparts-85x100.jpg.
.AAI.jpg.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.kingairdom.jpg.
.Latitude.jpg.
.avfab-85x50.jpg.
.tulsair-85x50.jpg.
.fliteelectronics.jpg.
.americanaviation-85x50.jpg.
.kingairacademy-85x100.png.
.instar.jpg.
.avionicssource-85x50.jpg.
.PistonPower_85x50.jpg.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.Rocky-Mountain-Turbine-85x100.jpg.
.sureflight-85x50.jpg.
.Trace.jpg.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.AviationCreation_85x50.jpg.
.truecourse.jpg.
.ei-85x150.jpg.
.tat-85x100.png.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.cubcrafters.jpg.
.Genesys_85x50.jpg.
.wholesalepowertools.jpg.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.CAV_85x50_2017_12_4.jpg.
.Showalter.jpg.
.jetacquisitions-85x50.png.
.tempest.jpg.
.nexair_85x100.jpg.
.daytona.jpg.
.jaair-85x100.jpg.
.weatherspork_85x50.jpg.
.bkool-85x50-2014-08-04.jpg.
.camguard.jpg.
.phillipangert-85x50.jpg.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.avidyne-85x50-2017-11-22.jpg.
.jlosborne-85x50.jpg.
.EagleFuelCellsTriple.jpg.
.dbm.jpg.
.2018-10-28-garmin-85x200.png.
.goodrich-85x150-2018-09-01.jpg.
.metarmap_85x50.jpg.
.wilco.jpg.
.ps_engineering.gif.
.hpair-85x50.jpg.
.Blackhawk_85x100.jpg.