19 Apr 2024, 15:58 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Big Leap.... Debonair to Meridian Posted: 28 Jan 2019, 14:24 |
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Joined: 10/06/09 Posts: 873 Post Likes: +46 Company: Baron Partners, Inc Location: Springfield, IL (KSPI)
Aircraft: CE-510 & T34B.
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Username Protected wrote: With the quality of the aftermarket avionics available I think you did this right. Buy an older SETP and then invest some of the savings in a new panel. At the end of the day you will have a very capable aircraft with avionics comparable to a new aircraft. Is the GFC600 certified for the Meridian yet? The GFC 600 is not certified on the PA46 yet but Garmin is actively working on it.
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Post subject: Re: Big Leap.... Debonair to Meridian Posted: 28 Jan 2019, 15:33 |
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Joined: 11/03/08 Posts: 14568 Post Likes: +22931 Location: Peachtree City GA / Stoke-On-Trent UK
Aircraft: A33
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Hi Brian,
Just a suggestion - there was a local guy last year who made the same jump, sold his cirrus and bought a piper jetprop conversion
He spend many nights riding along with me on my night king air gig, and also with another pilot in a cheyenne. Neither of us were giving "instruction" per se, but he got to see a good cross section of scenarios for flight planning, weather diverts, etc in an airplane with similar performance.
Flying the airplane is easy. The part that is going to be different for you are the things you do while george is flying.
best wishes, and you have a beautiful plane.
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Post subject: Re: Big Leap.... Debonair to Meridian Posted: 28 Jan 2019, 17:05 |
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Joined: 05/23/08 Posts: 6059 Post Likes: +703 Location: CMB7, Ottawa, Canada
Aircraft: TBM - C185 - T206
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You can do 1400 nm nonstop in the TBM going eastbound at FL310 pretty much all the time. Username Protected wrote: Congrats,, that is awesome!
I think many of us are/were in your position. I've been flying my Baron for just over two years and want to move up to pressurization, and have been looking at the 414As, 340A, Malibu etc...
I so want to bail on piston anything and get up to turbine power. A SETP would be best I think cost wise. Unfortunately my mission is 1400 nm. Baron does this in one stop east bound and one or two west bound. Only one TP that I have seen can do this non stop which is the Conquest II I think? But want to get up high.....Anyway I can keep dreaming and searching...
Glad to hear and see your new ride..
Brenda
_________________ Former Baron 58 owner. Pistons engines are for tractors.
Marc Bourdon
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Post subject: Re: Big Leap.... Debonair to Meridian Posted: 28 Jan 2019, 17:26 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23622 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: A SETP would be best I think cost wise. The cost of two TPE331 engines is one par with one PT6A-6x engine. The purchase price of twin TPE331 airplanes is usually a lot less than the PT6A-6x airplanes (TBM, PC-12). So it may not be the case that a single is less costly to operate, all factors accounted for. Quote: Unfortunately my mission is 1400 nm. To do that reliably non stop in just about any headwind takes a plane with 2000 nm still air range. Turboprops in the 20s to low 30s can get pummeled on headwinds in the winter, 100 knots is fairly common. My choice would be the Conquest II. A Merlin can also do it. Later model Commanders with larger fuel capacity can also. If you allow one fuel stop, then all the planes will do it easily. Quote: Only one TP that I have seen can do this non stop which is the Conquest II I think? But want to get up high..... Conquest II 441 would be my choice. It can go to FL350, so quite high, almost as high as the Citations get. The cabin altitude is pretty high, though, ~12,000 ft, so fatiguing on a long flight. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Big Leap.... Debonair to Meridian Posted: 28 Jan 2019, 19:31 |
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Joined: 10/05/09 Posts: 286 Post Likes: +130 Location: Portland, Oregon
Aircraft: MU-2F
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Username Protected wrote: A SETP would be best I think cost wise. The cost of two TPE331 engines is one par with one PT6A-6x engine. The purchase price of twin TPE331 airplanes is usually a lot less than the PT6A-6x airplanes (TBM, PC-12). So it may not be the case that a single is less costly to operate, all factors accounted for. Quote: Unfortunately my mission is 1400 nm. To do that reliably non stop in just about any headwind takes a plane with 2000 nm still air range. Turboprops in the 20s to low 30s can get pummeled on headwinds in the winter, 100 knots is fairly common. My choice would be the Conquest II. A Merlin can also do it. Later model Commanders with larger fuel capacity can also. If you allow one fuel stop, then all the planes will do it easily. Quote: Only one TP that I have seen can do this non stop which is the Conquest II I think? But want to get up high..... Conquest II 441 would be my choice. It can go to FL350, so quite high, almost as high as the Citations get. The cabin altitude is pretty high, though, ~12,000 ft, so fatiguing on a long flight. Mike C.
Why a Conquest II over a -10 Merlin?? The Conquest might be a little faster, but the Merlin is a big cabin plane for a turboprop and still pretty well supported from what I hear. A lot of parts commonality with the Metroliners.
Jeff Axel
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Post subject: Re: Big Leap.... Debonair to Meridian Posted: 29 Jan 2019, 00:08 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23622 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: Why a Conquest II over a -10 Merlin?? Merlin is 900 HP per side, 441 is 635 HP. It's the same engine, so the Merlin is pushing it hard and hits temp limit at a far lower altitude. 441 has lots of reserve due to the derating, and thus develops 100% power far higher (well into the flight levels with -10). This makes the 441 faster. The Merlin is pushing its engines so hard, it usually has AWI (alcohol water injection) so the remaining good engine can make enough power to get it flying if the other one quits. 441 doesn't have or need that. The Merlin is heavy, 14,000 lbs. The 441 is ~10,000 lbs. Lighter is faster, and also avoids the weird issues with type ratings above 12,500 lbs. You can fly the Merlin at 12,500 lbs, but that limits fuel load making it a short range airplane. Merlin burns more fuel due to needing more power and being heavier. The Merlin is FL310 max altitude, but RVSM typically limits them to FL280. 441 can be had with RVSM and then goes to FL350 where the fuel flow is less and the plane is very efficient. My few flights in a 441 have been very pleasant, quiet, fast, and smooth. The Cessna engineers did a great job on the engine installation with very aerodynamic cowls and great vibration isolation. I think the Merlin would be hard for some passengers to get into. Need a sherpa to get to the top of the air stair. I worry that My is geared toward the airline point of view which may not be so good for private owner operators. The Merlin cabin is bigger and I think has better pressurization. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Big Leap.... Debonair to Meridian Posted: 29 Jan 2019, 15:05 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23622 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: Mike, I’m sure you’ve done your homework on the mx requirements and costs of the C441. What do you think is a reasonable annual budget for mx on a C441, apart from engine OH or HSIs? You are better off seeking actual owners than me. My MU2 has been quite reasonable, well under $200/hour maintenance. But the MU2 airframe and the 441 airframe are quite different. The 441 does have a reputation of being "light", maybe even "flimsy" for its size and power. The MU2 (and the Merlin) aren't but there are negatives to being heavy, too. I would be far more worried about Commanders than 441, though, when it comes to airframe ruggedness, that big Commander wing puts a lot of load into the structure. Quote: I understand there are a number of inspection intervals all with various costs but if you assumed a 5 year ownership and about 200 hrs / yr, how much would budget for mx? I'd budget $250/hour, $50K/year, but it will depend a great deal on the condition of the plane, the shop you choose, and the involvement of the owner. If you can tolerate the $250/hour maintenance budget, then go for it. You probably can do better, but you have to accept you might not. The big expense with 441s is the imposition of SIDs (illegally IMO). There are ways to reduce this impact with individual inspection programs. Quote: I am based at TOL which is the home of National Flight who work on a great many C441’s. The horror stories I regularly hear regarding the mx of these birds is eye watering... Some of that might be NF more than 441s. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Big Leap.... Debonair to Meridian Posted: 29 Jan 2019, 17:02 |
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Joined: 05/31/13 Posts: 1235 Post Likes: +602 Company: Docking Drawer Location: KCCR
Aircraft: C425
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When you hear about those six figure shop visits I wonder about the condition of the plane to begin with. If you ignore comprehensive maintenance for several years and focus only on getting the sign off it’s not difficult to spend a lot of money catching up, especially with a turbine because the parts are expensive and there are a lot on inspections (and the more you look, the more you find). That being said, I would want to see the invoices for the $250k shop visit. That seems very high even for a 441. That’s what it cost to do all the SIDS 10 years ago, to put it in perspective.
Still, stuff just adds up. My airplane spent 5 years in Mexico before the previous owner bought it. The logs said it was getting all the required MX in Mexico but the previous owner brought it to Yingling for a 2,3,D plus some SIDS that were due. The bill was $110k (the SIDS were only a small part of that). I reviewed every line on the w/o and there were no huge or seemingly unnecessary items. Brakes, rotors, a flow pack, a repair to a deep gouge on the fwd pressure bulkhead, a couple cabin windows, etc. It just adds. I figured I was good to go but the prebuy uncovered another $10k worth of misc items, plus $40k to fix a leak on the accessory gear box (seller paid that, thank god). Then my first year of ownership required probably another $60-$70k. Mis rigged engines, fuel leaks, electrical glitches, another flow pack, pressurization leaks, and a bunch of other stuff I figured would have been caught in a $110K shop event. But I can’t stand things that aren’t right and it cost me to get it there. Year 2 was about $50k for 150 hrs but that included a FCU ($10k). This year I can’t see spending more than $30k including the other FCU proactively. There’s not much left to break (knock on wood). It’s just the nature of the game with old turbines if you want them to be perfect. Whoever eventually buys my plane will be in for a pleasant surprise but I think it’s the exception.
_________________ ATP, CFI-I, MEI http://www.dockingdrawer.com
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Post subject: Re: Big Leap.... Debonair to Meridian Posted: 29 Jan 2019, 17:30 |
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Joined: 12/19/11 Posts: 3303 Post Likes: +1424 Company: Bottom Line Experts Location: KTOL - Toledo, OH
Aircraft: 2004 SR22 G2
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I'm with ya Scott. I've come to realize that I'm a very picky owner and want everything to perfect, not just acceptable. My last G3 SR22T I had running smooth as silk and it took me 4-5 shops visits and a lot of tweaking to get my current G5 running as smoothly but the end result is worth it to me even though I've spent more on mx this year than I ever have. The problem is that having that level of discernment in a decades old t-prop I know is going to cost a boatload unless I buy from another discerning owner like yourself. Perhaps I should just buy your airplane and be done with it. My apologies to the OP for the slight thread drift here...
_________________ Don Coburn Corporate Expense Reduction Specialist 2004 SR22 G2
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