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 Post subject: AF new CAS aircraft
PostPosted: 21 Aug 2018, 13:05 
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Attached article discusses the Air Force's proposed new CAS (Close Air Support) aircraft.
Turbine aircraft with two candidates:

A-29 Super Tucano and AT-6 Light Attack. It discusses weaponry. I don't see any endurance numbers, but I see external tanks.

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2018/08/21/ ... ombat.html

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 Post subject: Re: AF new CAS aircraft
PostPosted: 21 Aug 2018, 18:25 
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Someone apparently thinks we’re going to be involved in guerilla wars/insurgencies for a lot longer than the fifteen years we’ve already spent fighting them. God help us.

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 Post subject: Re: AF new CAS aircraft
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2018, 00:05 
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We've come full circle back to the P-51 (oil-burning version).

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 Post subject: Re: AF new CAS aircraft
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2018, 01:14 
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I thought this light attack project was all supposed to be for foreign military aid.


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 Post subject: Re: AF new CAS aircraft
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2018, 09:32 
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Replaces the A1 skyraider, 40 years later. Looks like “high threat” CAS is going to other solutions.


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 Post subject: Re: AF new CAS aircraft
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2018, 09:52 
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Logical choice would be AT-6... since they are the UPT trainer, training and maintenance ops are already functional, and it is an American built aircraft...

But I definitely don’t see these platforms batting an eye against an A10, ground troops love that thing.


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 Post subject: Re: AF new CAS aircraft
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2018, 10:00 
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Username Protected wrote:
But I definitely don’t see these platforms batting an eye against an A10, ground troops love that thing.

As a former Infantryman, I think the A10 is the most beautiful aircraft in the inventory.

I thought I read somewhere that the Air Tractor entrant was given a last second invitation to the dance?


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 Post subject: Re: AF new CAS aircraft
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2018, 11:16 
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Username Protected wrote:
But I definitely don’t see these platforms batting an eye against an A10, ground troops love that thing.

As a former Infantryman, I think the A10 is the most beautiful aircraft in the inventory.

I thought I read somewhere that the Air Tractor entrant was given a last second invitation to the dance?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySuixFGIfbE

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 Post subject: Re: AF new CAS aircraft
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2018, 11:26 
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When first in RVN, I got some support from the A-1Es or Navy Spads. Great on-station time and eyeballs on the ground. Of course, Army helicopters also supported which were great for troops in more open areas. We've always had this divide between Army and AF on CAS. Reading about Korea now and it was the same thing there. AF wanted to control its missions and allocate which ground guys got priority while ground guys in contact might need immediate responsiveness. The Marines had much better CAS worked out than Army. In Korea in the beginning of the war, most air units couldn't coordinate with ground liaisons which led to support being away from friendly units. As the war progressed, things got much better but air-ground commo still limited support in a lot of circumstances.

In RVN, we never knew where support would come from where I was on an A-team. We'd call and request and could get anything from Army helos to A-1s or A-37s (we had low priority unless it developed into a major contact). We were out of close artillery support range. Could call in 175s, but they were for more area targets.
Sometimes the ground guys need something NOW that can get low and bring support in close. I can see where the A-10 could be over kill for some low intensity missions with small units involved.
Always an issue to get the right support where it needs to be when it needs to be there.

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 Post subject: Re: AF new CAS aircraft
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2018, 14:36 
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Someone apparently thinks we’re going to be involved in guerilla wars/insurgencies for a lot longer than the fifteen years we’ve already spent fighting them. God help us.


I agree John, God help us. The picture below represents one of the many flights I flew while assigned to the Air Mobility Command flying Operations Desert Shield, Desert Storm, Iraqi Freedom, and Operation Gothic Serpent - the Battle of Mogadishou, bringing our fallen soldiers back home to Dover Air Force Base.

Doing this really wore on me, and bothers me to this day. Enough is enough. Sorry for the thread creep, I had to get it off my chest.


Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.


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 Post subject: Re: AF new CAS aircraft
PostPosted: 25 Aug 2018, 09:37 
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Those are cute... When no one is shooting back at you... :hide:

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 Post subject: Re: AF new CAS aircraft
PostPosted: 25 Aug 2018, 12:00 
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I’m pretty sure no one has suggested (at least seriously) that this is a replacement for the A-10 but rather an additional weapons system for LIC; more of a refurbishment of the A-37 or OV-10 type of aircraft/mission.
I also agree with the poster who suggested these aircraft were dry much for the foreign military sales niche.


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 Post subject: Re: AF new CAS aircraft
PostPosted: 25 Aug 2018, 12:06 
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These aircraft are designed to shoot Hellfires at white Toyota pickups, rockets at guys on motorcycles and drop small bombs on mud huts. Those things need doing right now but you don’t need a $100 million aircraft to do them.

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 Post subject: Re: AF new CAS aircraft
PostPosted: 26 Aug 2018, 11:57 
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I've read some things that indicate that this aircraft will never be purchased by USAF for any reason, though I wouldn't be surprised if Embraer and Textron are using the program to develop the aircraft for foreign sales.


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 Post subject: Re: AF new CAS aircraft
PostPosted: 26 Aug 2018, 15:22 
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I've read some things that indicate that this aircraft will never be purchased by USAF for any reason, though I wouldn't be surprised if Embraer and Textron are using the program to develop the aircraft for foreign sales.

Those sources might be right. What many don’t realize is the purchase price is only one part of the cost of owning a fleet of airplanes for 20 to 30 years. We airplane owners understand this all too well! Over several decades, personnel costs are a significant part of the total cost and everyone associated with these aircraft (pilots, mechanics, supply, admin, ATC, ad infinitum) will earn exactly the same as their counterparts in the F-35 and F-22 fleets. There will be fewer bodies in some fields like maintenance but an aircraft that costs one-tenth the cost of an F-35 won’t have one-tenth the personnel costs. More like fifty percent or more.

Compare these aircraft to the A-10. The original purchase price of the A-10 fleet is a sunk cost so the “purchase cost” of keeping it in the fleet for another twenty years is just the cost of a service life extension program. Personnel costs will be similar. Fuel costs will be somewhat lower with the smaller aircraft. Parts costs might be a little less with the A-X but that’s unknown at this point pending discovering the real-world reliability of the aircraft. Keeping the A-10s might be marginally more expensive than buying, manning and maintaining a fleet of A-X but keeping the A-10 gives us an aircraft with much greater payload, firepower and survivability. Replacing the A-10 fleet with A-Xs is a no-brainer: keep the A-10s. If you’re talking buying A-Xs as an additional force to deal with insurgencies and terrorists, then perhaps that makes some fiscal sense if we plan on staying in those fights for an extended period.

Unfortunately, while we’ve been fighting insurgents in the Middle East, other players like Russia, China, India and a whole bunch of smaller nations like Saudi Arabia, North Korea, etc., have been buying advanced weapons, aircraft, ships, tanks and other means of making war. You don’t have to gather a very large axis of unfriendly powers before you have a force that out-numbers and out-guns us. The A-X will have no role in a major conflict and buying them would reduce the number of more capable weapons we can afford to purchase. The cave men insurgents in the Middle East can create trouble but they don’t threaten our existence as a nation. There are other collections of enemies out there that can.

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