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28 Mar 2024, 07:59 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: My new plane with a lot of BT help!
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2018, 08:36 
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The Citabria 7GCAA I learned in was a pig in the aileron/ballistic roll department even with spades and the longer acro sticks. We always did a slight dive to get 120, quick pitch up to 20°+, freeze elevator at neutral and then FULL aileron... anything less than 100% was going to mean you were too nose low even with 20° up a few seconds before.

The roll is slow enough that even as a novice I learned to use a touch of top rudder and and a slight push at inverted to keep the flight path flatter. Aileron only rolls meant even more pitch up at the beginning. Keep practicing, you'll get the "feel" for rolling it.


Thanks Steve - I need to go play when I'm solo and don't have baggage in the back. I'm used to just a straight, no rudder or inverted elevator, aileron roll, but as you pointed out that technique isn't working in the Citabria. About three quarters of the way around I'm looking at dirt saying "hm... this isn't going to work!"

Any advice on loops? 140mph and pull?

Robert


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 Post subject: Re: My new plane with a lot of BT help!
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2018, 08:45 
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Username Protected wrote:

Thanks Steve - I need to go play when I'm solo and don't have baggage in the back. I'm used to just a straight, no rudder or inverted elevator, aileron roll, but as you pointed out that technique isn't working in the Citabria. About three quarters of the way around I'm looking at dirt saying "hm... this isn't going to work!"

Any advice on loops? 140mph and pull?

Robert



Pretty much. 140 for loops and hammerheads.

Initial hard squeeze to 3-4g let off slightly as you start over the top. Look up, out the skylight and pick up the horizon, square up the trajectory with rudder, while letting off the back pressure a touch so you can float it over the top. The Citabria will try and flop back down if you don't pull hard enough initially, or if you float too much. It just needs a little unloading over the top to keep the loop round. Then a harder pull at the end to wings level.

Hammerheads need opposite aileron when you kick the rudder too. It bleeds speed fast so there isn't any room for much of a vertical line. Just pin it vertical and get ready to kick.

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 Post subject: Re: My new plane with a lot of BT help!
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2018, 10:32 
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Username Protected wrote:
Pretty much. 140 for loops and hammerheads.


Cool, thanks. Loops sound standard and what I'm used to.

Never done a hammerhead, so I'll grab an instructor before I go do that solo!

One of my underlying reasons for getting the Citabria was so that I could get experience in a different kind of aerobatic airplane. Most of my upside down time is in the T28s, and becoming proficient in the Citabria will make me a better aerobatic/airshow pilot.

Robert


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 Post subject: Re: My new plane with a lot of BT help!
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2018, 12:37 
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For some reason the aileron rolls are eluding me and I keep ending up waaay nose down.

Robert


Shocking :cheers:

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 Post subject: Re: My new plane with a lot of BT help!
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2018, 15:51 
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For some reason the aileron rolls are eluding me and I keep ending up waaay nose down.

Robert


Shocking :cheers:

In 4 years I never got good at rolling my Citabria. Same thing, they always turned into an ugly split S.
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 Post subject: Re: My new plane with a lot of BT help!
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2018, 16:00 
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Very nice to hear you had such a great experience with the purchase and training!

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 Post subject: Re: My new plane with a lot of BT help!
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2018, 21:47 
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 Post subject: Re: My new plane with a lot of BT help!
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2018, 10:10 
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 Post subject: Re: My new plane with a lot of BT help!
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2018, 13:19 
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Loved flying Citabrias! I didn’t know the 7gcbc got a 180 in it. Is that late model from the factory or an STC?

You’ll get a lot of input on the rolls. My two cents worth, coordinated rudder and reasonably nose up to start, then push the stick forward a bit as you go past 90. Initially try to be light in the seat the whole time you are past 90 degrees. A lot of folks try to hurry the nose back to level in the last quarter of the roll. Try to stay unloaded there, with a gob of coordinated rudder to help keep the nose from tracking down. There are ton of variations on the theme, but that should give you a place to start with a Citabria and tweak to your preferences from there.

Great airplane! I always wanted to put a big old mushy set of tundras on one and head off to the boonies. Keep us posted!


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 Post subject: Re: My new plane with a lot of BT help!
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2018, 13:27 
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Loved flying Citabrias! I didn’t know the 7gcbc got a 180 in it. Is that late model from the factory or an STC?


It's a 2005 "High Country Explorer" model - Factory 180hp, VGs, etc.

It comes stock with 8.00 tires, but has 8.50s on it now which I really like - She sits up higher and prouder with the 8.50s.

Thanks for the advice on the rolls - I'm used to just a standard ballistic roll and it sounds like I'll need to do more of a slow roll technique. Good experience for me!

Robert


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 Post subject: Re: My new plane with a lot of BT help!
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2018, 13:53 
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Quote:
stick forward a bit as you go past 90.

I just wanted to add that most folks new to it, tend to take out the aileron as they go inverted and add forward stick. Keep it rolling...

Sorry, I know that internet aerobatics is not the way to learn, just wanted to add that point.

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 Post subject: Re: My new plane with a lot of BT help!
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2018, 14:02 
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Quote:
stick forward a bit as you go past 90.

I just wanted to add that most folks new to it, tend to take out the aileron as they go inverted and add forward stick. Keep it rolling...

Sorry, I know that internet aerobatics is not the way to learn, just wanted to add that point.


Thanks Jeff. Just FYI, I do a lot of acro, but almost all of my acro experience is in a T28.

Robert


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 Post subject: Re: My new plane with a lot of BT help!
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2018, 15:27 
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Pull up until your heels are on the horizon then full hard left (or right) aileron and rudder. Makes a passable roll.

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 Post subject: Re: My new plane with a lot of BT help!
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2018, 17:24 
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Thanks Jeff. Just FYI, I do a lot of acro, but almost all of my acro experience is in a T28.

Robert

I went from learning rolls in a T34 to trying them in a 7eca, so I feel your pain. The faster airplanes sort of unload themselves, the Citabrias and cwcubs need some help to keep them from pitching into the roll. Not negative, but an unload to a half g or so helps stop the nose from tracking down, and helps the roll rate. You’ll see it next time you try.


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 Post subject: Re: My new plane with a lot of BT help!
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2018, 19:10 
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What is your cruise speed and fuel capacity?

Also, have you done any aerobatics in it yet?

I love long cross country flights in taildraggers....just not too often!


35 gallons usable, and I figure 100kts and 10gph. Does a touch better on both, but that's "close enough".

I've done a couple of crappy rolls, but haven't flown without luggage yet so nothing over the top. For some reason the aileron rolls are eluding me and I keep ending up waaay nose down.
Robert


Try pulling up about 30 degrees, unload the wings (really important) then full left or right stick with a little rudder in the direction of the roll as you roll thru 90 deg. :peace:

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