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 Post subject: Re: Oshkosh - any Cessna SETP news ?
PostPosted: 13 Aug 2018, 22:11 
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I agree, also that the Garmin G3000 will win some pilots to Textron.


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I think Denali will be a very successful project , don't forget a lot of PC12 owns the Government , Army, UN ... they will buy Textron product . Also Cessna parts will be more available and cheaper. As soon as the Textron has established Denali production, we will see a lot of PC12 for sale .

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 Post subject: Re: Oshkosh - any Cessna SETP news ?
PostPosted: 13 Aug 2018, 22:42 
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Username Protected wrote:
I think Denali will be a very successful project , don't forget a lot of PC12 owns the Government , Army, UN ... they will buy Textron product . Also Cessna parts will be more available and cheaper. As soon as the Textron has established Denali production, we will see a lot of PC12 for sale .


Don't really see this. Brand loyalty goes a long way. The PC-12 crowd is like a cult. When Honda built their pickup truck, the Ridgeline (highly rated by Consumer Reports, etc), a bunch of Ford F-150's didn't appear for sale overnight.

Ain't happening

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 Post subject: Re: Oshkosh - any Cessna SETP news ?
PostPosted: 13 Aug 2018, 23:00 
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[/quote]
Don't really see this. Brand loyalty goes a long way. The PC-12 crowd is like a cult. When Honda built their pickup truck, the Ridgeline (highly rated by Consumer Reports, etc), a bunch of Ford F-150's didn't appear for sale overnight.

Ain't happening[/quote]

We have a huge choose of pick up tracks on market , PC 12 in its size and spec . only one airplane on market.
I was seating Denali's cabin it 5 " wider and very comfortable, I think Textron and GE knows what they are doing , also GA only win .

[youtube]https://youtu.be/D9-Jjs5D4kM[/youtube]


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 Post subject: Re: Oshkosh - any Cessna SETP news ?
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2018, 02:16 
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Large corporation timidity and group think.

I don't get it. It already exists in the PC12 and to some extent, the little brother versions in the TBM and the Meridian M600/M500 or whatever they're calling it now.

Big corporations are run by committees and they meet in 2-hour power-sessions with lots of power point decks and box lunch from the company cafeteria brought into the meeting rooms and of course, half the people calling in on the phone bridge.


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 Post subject: Re: Oshkosh - any Cessna SETP news ?
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2018, 09:00 
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Username Protected wrote:
Large corporation timidity and group think.

I don't get it. It already exists in the PC12 and to some extent, the little brother versions in the TBM and the Meridian M600/M500 or whatever they're calling it now.

Big corporations are run by committees and they meet in 2-hour power-sessions with lots of power point decks and box lunch from the company cafeteria brought into the meeting rooms and of course, half the people calling in on the phone bridge.

Not to mention they got "on the job" 25 years too late.

"Design by committee" doesn't work.


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 Post subject: Re: Oshkosh - any Cessna SETP news ?
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2018, 11:38 
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Username Protected wrote:
I think Denali will be a very successful project , don't forget a lot of PC12 owns the Government , Army, UN ... they will buy Textron product . Also Cessna parts will be more available and cheaper. As soon as the Textron has established Denali production, we will see a lot of PC12 for sale .


Don't really see this. Brand loyalty goes a long way. The PC-12 crowd is like a cult. When Honda built their pickup truck, the Ridgeline (highly rated by Consumer Reports, etc), a bunch of Ford F-150's didn't appear for sale overnight.

Ain't happening


Bill, I think what he is saying is a lot of the Gov't owned PC12's will get replaced by the US made Denali, not the private owner/operator ones?? I think.......
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 Post subject: Re: Oshkosh - any Cessna SETP news ?
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2018, 21:47 
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A jet engine seems simpler than a turbo prop.... fewer parts, just basically simpler in concept.

If SETP's are so good why isn't someone making a PC-12 sized Jet.
Only SE jet is the cirrus and its tiny....


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 Post subject: Re: Oshkosh - any Cessna SETP news ?
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2018, 22:05 
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Username Protected wrote:
A jet engine seems simpler than a turbo prop.... fewer parts, just basically simpler in concept.

If SETP's are so good why isn't someone making a PC-12 sized Jet.
Only SE jet is the cirrus and its tiny....


Mike C will be here to explain this to you in 3...2...1 :rofl:


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 Post subject: Re: Oshkosh - any Cessna SETP news ?
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2018, 00:17 
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Username Protected wrote:
A jet engine seems simpler than a turbo prop.... fewer parts, just basically simpler in concept.

If SETP's are so good why isn't someone making a PC-12 sized Jet.
Only SE jet is the cirrus and its tiny....


Mike C will be here to explain this to you in 3...2...1 :rofl:


I think Mike C bugged out.

But aero engineering according to beechtalk has found the first engine to produce no drag but a second to create drag that negates any of its thrust. Don’t ask for further explanation.
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 Post subject: Re: Oshkosh - any Cessna SETP news ?
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2018, 08:37 
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Username Protected wrote:
If SETP's are so good why isn't someone making a PC-12 sized Jet.

CJ3, CJ4, Phenom 300, PC24...... there are a bunch of them.


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 Post subject: Re: Oshkosh - any Cessna SETP news ?
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2018, 09:14 
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Why would 320kts be so hard to obtain? Seems you just need to fly higher (high 30s or low 40’s) to reduce drag. If the engine has a big enough compressor (the trade off is that it costs more to spin it down low), it could produce enough horsepower up high. Carbon fiber, computer modeling of aerodynamics and a little engine technology might get Cessna there.

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 Post subject: Re: Oshkosh - any Cessna SETP news ?
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2018, 09:16 
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Oh wait, maybe you can't go that high in a SETP because of the danger of losing pressurization??

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 Post subject: Re: Oshkosh - any Cessna SETP news ?
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2018, 09:21 
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Username Protected wrote:
Oh wait, maybe you can't go that high in a SETP because of the danger of losing pressurization??

According to the marketing materials, the Denali will have a FL310 service ceiling.

I agree with your comments about higher service ceiling. I wouldn't be surprised if Pilatus already has a plan to raise the new PC12's ceiling to FL350.


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 Post subject: Re: Oshkosh - any Cessna SETP news ?
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2018, 09:36 
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Username Protected wrote:
Oh wait, maybe you can't go that high in a SETP because of the danger of losing pressurization??


Isn't Epic trying to break that barrier? Wonder how their certification is going?

As far as hitting the magical 320 knots, the difference in a 265 knot Pilatus and a 320 knot Denali would be a whopping 18 minutes on the 600 nm trip from Salt Lake to Seattle with a light headwind. Small changes in speed do not make as big a change in flight time as some think. Can burn way more time with inefficient flight planning, longer pre-flights etc. I have a friend that flies a Mustang. Quite often I would pull into the airport, see his Mustang outside the hanger loading, preflighting, attached to the GPU, fueling etc. I would drive in, do a thorough preflight, clearance, taxi out and take off, with his plane still on the ground. Pretty sure my total travel time pretty much everywhere in my slow TP was almost always less than his speedy Mustang ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Oshkosh - any Cessna SETP news ?
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2018, 10:40 
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Username Protected wrote:
As far as hitting the magical 320 knots, the difference in a 265 knot Pilatus and a 320 knot Denali would be a whopping 18 minutes on the 600 nm trip from Salt Lake to Seattle with a light headwind. Small changes in speed do not make as big a change in flight time as some think. Can burn way more time with inefficient flight planning, longer pre-flights etc. I have a friend that flies a Mustang. Quite often I would pull into the airport, see his Mustang outside the hanger loading, preflighting, attached to the GPU, fueling etc. I would drive in, do a thorough preflight, clearance, taxi out and take off, with his plane still on the ground. Pretty sure my total travel time pretty much everywhere in my slow TP was almost always less than his speedy Mustang ;)

No doubt my flight planning more than makes up for the difference in a faster airplane. But imagine marrying my flight planning and the extra 35 knots!!!

Speed sells airplanes. If the Denali is 35 knots faster than the PC12 it will be hard to sell a PC12.


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