28 Mar 2024, 15:32 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Pilatus PC-24 Aviation Week Article Posted: 04 Aug 2018, 10:37 |
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Joined: 07/23/09 Posts: 1067 Post Likes: +560 Location: KSJT
Aircraft: PC-24 Citabria 7GCBC
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Aviation Week recently posted a good article on the PC24. http://aviationweek.com/business-aviation/pilatus-pc-24-business-jet-class-all-its-ownFred is not known for withholding criticism in his aircraft reviews but here are some of his comments. Quote: Conclusions? From a pilot's perspective, Pilatus' first jet is one of the most docile, forgiving and predictable business aircraft we've flown. It's well-suited to single-pilot operations." Quote: On balance, we believe Pilatus will deliver at least 2,000 PC-24 aircraft over the next two decades. It is clearly on track to deliver 2,000 PC-12s, a slap in the face to doubters who said it would never build more than 200. The future success of the PC-24 would be a fitting tribute to a small Swiss company that's been refuting skeptics for the past quarter century.
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Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24 Aviation Week Article Posted: 04 Aug 2018, 21:44 |
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Joined: 01/19/10 Posts: 350 Post Likes: +156 Location: NY
Aircraft: C310R
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I think PC they made a mistake with PC24. They went to the dangerous jet side of business , I do not think it's was a good idea.I think Pilatus they had to stand on the turboprop side and develop new turboprops making them cheaper , more speed and more affordable. . We will see
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Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24 Aviation Week Article Posted: 05 Aug 2018, 07:21 |
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Joined: 01/29/08 Posts: 26431 Post Likes: +13064 Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: I think PC they made a mistake with PC24. They went to the dangerous jet side of business , I do not think it's was a good idea.I think Pilatus they had to stand on the turboprop side and develop new turboprops making them cheaper , more speed and more affordable. . We will see That's what everyone said when Pilatus introduced the PC12 in 1994. Pilatus is a privately owned company. That alone is about all you need to run circles around the competition in Aviation. "Design by committee" used by Cessna and Beech brings products to market decades too late. The entire aviation market demand can be filled by Cirrus and Pilatus right now. No other players needed.
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Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24 Aviation Week Article Posted: 05 Aug 2018, 10:09 |
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Joined: 01/02/08 Posts: 7201 Post Likes: +5100 Company: Rusnak Auto Group Location: Newport Coast, CA
Aircraft: Baron B55 N7123N
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Username Protected wrote: The entire aviation market demand can be filled by Cirrus and Pilatus right now. No other players needed.
Jason, would you not include Diamond in that mix? Seems to me they have a very relevant lineup.
_________________ STAND UP FOR YOUR COUNTRY
Sven
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Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24 Aviation Week Article Posted: 05 Aug 2018, 10:46 |
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Joined: 01/13/11 Posts: 1716 Post Likes: +878 Location: San Francisco, CA
Aircraft: C 150
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Quote: Jason, would you not include Diamond in that mix? Seems to me they have a very relevant lineup. Does Diamond have a serious market share? It is rumored that Cirius is developing a lower end plane so that they have the low end also covered.
_________________ Tom Schiff CA 35 San Rafael/Smith Ranch airport.
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Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24 Aviation Week Article Posted: 05 Aug 2018, 11:00 |
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Joined: 01/02/08 Posts: 7201 Post Likes: +5100 Company: Rusnak Auto Group Location: Newport Coast, CA
Aircraft: Baron B55 N7123N
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Username Protected wrote: Quote: Jason, would you not include Diamond in that mix? Seems to me they have a very relevant lineup. Does Diamond have a serious market share? It is rumored that Cirius is developing a lower end plane so that they have the low end also covered. Tom, GAMA for 2017 reported 377 deliveries for Cirrus and 137 for Diamond. https://gama.aero/facts-and-statistics/ ... -billings/
_________________ STAND UP FOR YOUR COUNTRY
Sven
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Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24 Aviation Week Article Posted: 05 Aug 2018, 11:47 |
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Joined: 01/29/08 Posts: 26431 Post Likes: +13064 Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: Jason, would you not include Diamond in that mix? Seems to me they have a very relevant lineup. SF50 or DA62? I'll take the SF50. I'm not paying $1.4MM for a piston plane. Yes I like the Diamond but it's damn close to irrelevant in the face of the SF50.
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Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24 Aviation Week Article Posted: 05 Aug 2018, 12:39 |
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Joined: 01/29/08 Posts: 26431 Post Likes: +13064 Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: Probably need to throw Embraer in there and I would agree. The TBM fills the nitch for a fast efficient 6 place turboprop at a much lower price point, but then so does the M500/600. I do think there will always be a market for entry level turboprops, and someone, maybe it will be Epic, will figure out how to do it in the low $2million range. Phenom 300 vs. PC24.... I'll take PC24 SF50 covers the inexpensive, short range trips PC12 covers the longer range, lot's of stuff trips PC24 covers the larger jet, 2000 mile trips Literally a plane for every mission right there in those 3. Nothing else needed.
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Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24 Aviation Week Article Posted: 05 Aug 2018, 14:20 |
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Joined: 12/17/12 Posts: 170 Post Likes: +117 Location: Des Moines, IA
Aircraft: CE-525
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I've looked seriously at the three largest SP jets (CJ4/PC24/P300E) and so far I still think Embraer has the plane to beat. They're all within a stone's throw for performance (as cool as landing on a grass runway would be I'm guessing our insurance company wouldn't agree). The CJ4 and PC24 both in my mind have compromises that you shouldn't have to make in a plane that large/expensive.
CJ4: Ancient avionics (PL21), quasi-single point refueling (no fueling panel on aircraft). PC24: Lav up front. Did I mention lav up front? In a plane with this much range, it'll be used. This isn't a Mustang. P300E: None of these issues.
Yes, each plane has plenty of good things...I particularly wish other manufacturers with Williams engines would come out with upgrades to enable Quiet Power Mode like the PC24. But, Cessna can't realistically think that people will buy a brand-new airplane with 1990s technology up front and Pilatus needs to offer an executive interior. I'd guess that a lot of potential flight department customers for the PC24 are like me and could care less about a cargo door and a reconfigurable interior and would like a conventional club arrangement with a serviceable lav and sink in the back.
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Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24 Aviation Week Article Posted: 05 Aug 2018, 17:28 |
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Joined: 01/29/08 Posts: 26431 Post Likes: +13064 Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: I've looked seriously at the three largest SP jets (CJ4/PC24/P300E) and so far I still think Embraer has the plane to beat. They're all within a stone's throw for performance (as cool as landing on a grass runway would be I'm guessing our insurance company wouldn't agree). The CJ4 and PC24 both in my mind have compromises that you shouldn't have to make in a plane that large/expensive.
CJ4: Ancient avionics (PL21), quasi-single point refueling (no fueling panel on aircraft). PC24: Lav up front. Did I mention lav up front? In a plane with this much range, it'll be used. This isn't a Mustang. P300E: None of these issues.
Yes, each plane has plenty of good things...I particularly wish other manufacturers with Williams engines would come out with upgrades to enable Quiet Power Mode like the PC24. But, Cessna can't realistically think that people will buy a brand-new airplane with 1990s technology up front and Pilatus needs to offer an executive interior. I'd guess that a lot of potential flight department customers for the PC24 are like me and could care less about a cargo door and a reconfigurable interior and would like a conventional club arrangement with a serviceable lav and sink in the back. Lav up front??? who cares? Lav is up front on the PC12 and mine gets used. What's the problem? Don't want a cargo door? I use mine every flight. If those are the only difference you're aware of regarding the PC24 then I say you "haven't looked at one". To each his own.
Last edited on 05 Aug 2018, 17:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24 Aviation Week Article Posted: 05 Aug 2018, 17:31 |
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Joined: 01/29/08 Posts: 26431 Post Likes: +13064 Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: Someone needs to get the memo to Gulfstrsam and Dassualt that they can stop making airplanes now Someone always needs to go extreme in these threads. Obviously being here on BT we're talking at the bare minimum "single pilot" planes. 2000 miles is the max range you're gonna get in single pilot. Yes, if you're flying to Europe you'll need the Gulfstream. I thought that was a given. Hey, You should feel good for stating the obvious.
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Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24 Aviation Week Article Posted: 05 Aug 2018, 17:56 |
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Joined: 12/16/09 Posts: 7087 Post Likes: +1956 Location: Houston, TX
Aircraft: BE-TBD
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Username Protected wrote: The entire aviation market demand can be filled by Cirrus and Pilatus right now. No other players needed.
We talk about everything that flies here on BT, even airliners. But yes, if you consider single pilot aircraft I see your point. I don’t exactly agree that the whole single pilot market is served but you can make that argument.
_________________ QB
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Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24 Aviation Week Article Posted: 05 Aug 2018, 18:14 |
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Joined: 07/22/14 Posts: 9192 Post Likes: +16337 Company: Mountain Airframe LLC Location: Mena, Arkansas
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Username Protected wrote: The entire aviation market demand can be filled by Cirrus and Pilatus right now. No other players needed.
We talk about everything that flies here on BT, even airliners. But yes, if you consider single pilot aircraft I see your point. I don’t exactly agree that the whole single pilot market is served but you can make that argument. Remember, Jason is simplifying his life So, I can see where one of each will fit his missions. When I was a young man, Dad always said "have at least 2........that way, if one won't the other one will"
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