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 Post subject: Re: Nextant single pilot?
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2018, 23:21 
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The cockpit already somewhat similar to a Premier already. Rearrange a few switches and dials and be pretty close.


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 Post subject: Re: Nextant single pilot?
PostPosted: 29 Jul 2018, 07:00 
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Username Protected wrote:
In addition to getting the single pilot approved, they would have to recertify the entire aircraft top to bottom under Part-23 (it's currently part 25 afaik)

This might be possible for them as it's under it's own type certificate already. Will be interesting to see.


You mean STC right? Nextant doesn't have their own TC do they?


Jim Clifford is doing work on SP approval and according to him he is a year out on getting it done, and he claims that no STC is required just developing an approved training curriculum.

Gary

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 Post subject: Re: Nextant single pilot?
PostPosted: 03 Sep 2018, 00:28 
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Username Protected wrote:
Jim Clifford is doing work on SP approval and according to him he is a year out on getting it done, and he claims that no STC is required just developing an approved training curriculum.

Sounds like the strategy is getting the Single Pilot Exemption like the legacy Citation series. This doesn't change the airplane if it meets certain requirements (headset with boom microphone, ident button on yoke, autopilot, gear handle left side, etc) that most already have.

It is mostly a special training and checkout every year. The SPE is granted to training outfits, not to the pilot or plane.

It should be noted that someone did try to get an SPE for a Falcon 10. See attached denial from the FAA.

Mike C.


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 Post subject: Re: Nextant single pilot?
PostPosted: 05 Sep 2018, 10:44 
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Username Protected wrote:
Jim Clifford is doing work on SP approval and according to him he is a year out on getting it done, and he claims that no STC is required just developing an approved training curriculum.

Sounds like the strategy is getting the Single Pilot Exemption like the legacy Citation series. This doesn't change the airplane if it meets certain requirements (headset with boom microphone, ident button on yoke, autopilot, gear handle left side, etc) that most already have.

It is mostly a special training and checkout every year. The SPE is granted to training outfits, not to the pilot or plane.

It should be noted that someone did try to get an SPE for a Falcon 10. See attached denial from the FAA.

Mike C.


The FSDO reviewer suggested that the petitioner did not make the case why an SPE would be in the best interest of the public rather only to himself. I wonder how any of the other SPE aircraft made this case? Seems like a high bar to clear.
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 Post subject: Re: Nextant single pilot?
PostPosted: 05 Sep 2018, 17:45 
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I'm thinking this Nextant is in a similar neighborhood (albeit a wider cabin?) to a Cessna Citation Super S-II Sierra? The S2S is single pilot capable and has some pretty impressive stats with those FJ44s strapped on to it.

What is the pitch for the 400XTi compared to the S2S for example?


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 Post subject: Re: Nextant single pilot?
PostPosted: 05 Sep 2018, 22:21 
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Username Protected wrote:
Jim Clifford is doing work on SP approval and according to him he is a year out on getting it done, and he claims that no STC is required just developing an approved training curriculum.

Sounds like the strategy is getting the Single Pilot Exemption like the legacy Citation series. This doesn't change the airplane if it meets certain requirements (headset with boom microphone, ident button on yoke, autopilot, gear handle left side, etc) that most already have.

It is mostly a special training and checkout every year. The SPE is granted to training outfits, not to the pilot or plane.

It should be noted that someone did try to get an SPE for a Falcon 10. See attached denial from the FAA.

Mike C.


Early beechjets had the gear handle on the left, and all CB’s on the left sidewall. I was told it was intended to be SP from start, when aquired from Mitsubishi, but they couldn’t certify like that for some reason. Maybe Nextant have a few early models like this, and will get around whatever prevented it the first time? Good luck to them

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 Post subject: Re: Nextant single pilot?
PostPosted: 06 Sep 2018, 01:10 
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Username Protected wrote:
The FSDO reviewer suggested that the petitioner did not make the case why an SPE would be in the best interest of the public rather only to himself. I wonder how any of the other SPE aircraft made this case? Seems like a high bar to clear.

I've attached the original SPE (#4050) from 1984 where Cessna makes the case for the public benefits.

Cessna believes that the requested exemption is in the public interest for the following reasons:

(1) In these times of high unemployment among manufacturers of general aviation aircraft, any factor that can stimulate buyer interest within the aviation community is profoundly in the public interest. Cessna believes that the capability to market a single-pilot Part 25 Citation II is such a factor. Cessna's Chairman, Mr. Russell W. Meyer, Jr., has estimated that each unit of the 500 series that is sold represents the direct employment of 100 aerospace workers. Added to that is the job's impact of associated community support and service employment.

(2) The capability for single-pilot operation in Part 25 Citations will make them more competitive against foreign-manufactured aircraft, unless or until those aircraft can also be shown to be safe for single-pilot operation. An improved competitive position enhances the position of the United States among world aerospace manufacturers, helps to preserve jobs in United States aerospace manufacturing and benefits the United States by reducing the outflow of dollars as well as reducing negative balance of payment pressures. The President of the United States, through the Office of Science and Technology Policy, has identified United States preeminence in aviation and aerospace as a necessary goal.

(3) Operators advise Cessna that substantial economic benefits result from the capability for single-pilot operation. Although Citations are often operated with a second in command, whether or not single-pilot operation is authorized, the flexibility afforded by this authorization can materially reduce day-to-day operating costs. Additional economies will accrue by relief through transport category certification of the 12,500-pounds normal category weight limit since the added fuel capability can allow a trip to be made without fuel-wasting intermediate stops. Also, the availability of the option of operating single pilot often adds a dimension of scheduling flexibility that can eliminate the need of some flights. Thus, the economy of single-pilot operation is in the public interest both from the standpoint of conserving financial resoures and from the standpoint of conserving fuel resources.


Mike C.


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 Post subject: Re: Nextant single pilot?
PostPosted: 06 Sep 2018, 06:26 
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Username Protected wrote:
The FSDO reviewer suggested that the petitioner did not make the case why an SPE would be in the best interest of the public rather only to himself. I wonder how any of the other SPE aircraft made this case? Seems like a high bar to clear.

I've attached the original SPE (#4050) from 1984 where Cessna makes the case for the public benefits.

Cessna believes that the requested exemption is in the public interest for the following reasons:

(1) In these times of high unemployment among manufacturers of general aviation aircraft, any factor that can stimulate buyer interest within the aviation community is profoundly in the public interest. Cessna believes that the capability to market a single-pilot Part 25 Citation II is such a factor. Cessna's Chairman, Mr. Russell W. Meyer, Jr., has estimated that each unit of the 500 series that is sold represents the direct employment of 100 aerospace workers. Added to that is the job's impact of associated community support and service employment.

(2) The capability for single-pilot operation in Part 25 Citations will make them more competitive against foreign-manufactured aircraft, unless or until those aircraft can also be shown to be safe for single-pilot operation. An improved competitive position enhances the position of the United States among world aerospace manufacturers, helps to preserve jobs in United States aerospace manufacturing and benefits the United States by reducing the outflow of dollars as well as reducing negative balance of payment pressures. The President of the United States, through the Office of Science and Technology Policy, has identified United States preeminence in aviation and aerospace as a necessary goal.

(3) Operators advise Cessna that substantial economic benefits result from the capability for single-pilot operation. Although Citations are often operated with a second in command, whether or not single-pilot operation is authorized, the flexibility afforded by this authorization can materially reduce day-to-day operating costs. Additional economies will accrue by relief through transport category certification of the 12,500-pounds normal category weight limit since the added fuel capability can allow a trip to be made without fuel-wasting intermediate stops. Also, the availability of the option of operating single pilot often adds a dimension of scheduling flexibility that can eliminate the need of some flights. Thus, the economy of single-pilot operation is in the public interest both from the standpoint of conserving financial resoures and from the standpoint of conserving fuel resources.


Mike C.


I would have thought out Falcon 10 hero could have conjured up something similar. Alternatively the FAA should have enough experience to say they “get it”.

Thanks mike.
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 Post subject: Re: Nextant single pilot?
PostPosted: 06 Sep 2018, 15:54 
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Username Protected wrote:
I'm thinking this Nextant is in a similar neighborhood (albeit a wider cabin?) to a Cessna Citation Super S-II Sierra? The S2S is single pilot capable and has some pretty impressive stats with those FJ44s strapped on to it.

What is the pitch for the 400XTi compared to the S2S for example?


The Beechjet 400A is a far superior airframe to the Cessna 550 series. A slightly better comparison would be the Legacy 560... but the Beechjet is still a stouter airframe.

The passengers will be the ones that really notice the difference, the cabin of the Beechjet is a lot more comfortable.

Another point is that the S-II is an older airframe... depending on what you start with you could have a fairly late model Beechjet 400A or even a Hawker 400XP, either of these airframes are available at prices that make sense.

I'm skeptical, but if they pull this off... it could be huge!

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 Post subject: Re: Nextant single pilot?
PostPosted: 06 Sep 2018, 17:05 
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I think if they pull this off, which I too am skeptical, that it would be big for a small part of the market.......the owner flown part. It will also tempt other manufactures or modifiers to explore other "like" air-frames for consideration for single pilot ops to get in on the opportunity. It would deflate the market value of the current offerings, and breath new life into some other legacy air-frames. Again, I'm skeptical they pull it off.

Being an owner that flies a single pilot turbofan, the choices are very limited, but within the choices, there is ample product, and pretty good performance, such as the bigger CJ's and the Phenom 300. I don't know that I would be best served smoking along in Lear 30 series or Falcon 10/100. The margin of safety starts to get questionable when the failure chain starts to break in these sportier airplanes, especially when getting closer to the airport.

The CJ's are pretty benign in handling, not real fast with exception of the CJ4 and P300. Cockpit/avionics integration certainly makes things much more doable for single pilot ops, and these types of retrofits for older legacy airplanes would seem pretty cost prohibitive.


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 Post subject: Re: Nextant single pilot?
PostPosted: 06 Sep 2018, 17:52 
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Thank you for the insight Chip. I need to get in a 400 series and test out the VIP seating, I've only encountered them from the outside on the ramp :)

Anything that can do ~2000nm at 400 kts at FL 4x with 4+ pax and is single pilot sure does sound great!

Username Protected wrote:
The Beechjet 400A is a far superior airframe to the Cessna 550 series. A slightly better comparison would be the Legacy 560... but the Beechjet is still a stouter airframe.

The passengers will be the ones that really notice the difference, the cabin of the Beechjet is a lot more comfortable.

Another point is that the S-II is an older airframe... depending on what you start with you could have a fairly late model Beechjet 400A or even a Hawker 400XP, either of these airframes are available at prices that make sense.

I'm skeptical, but if they pull this off... it could be huge!


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 Post subject: Re: Nextant single pilot?
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2018, 12:33 
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Username Protected wrote:
I'm thinking this Nextant is in a similar neighborhood (albeit a wider cabin?) to a Cessna Citation Super S-II Sierra? The S2S is single pilot capable and has some pretty impressive stats with those FJ44s strapped on to it.

What is the pitch for the 400XTi compared to the S2S for example?


The Beechjet 400A is a far superior airframe to the Cessna 550 series. A slightly better comparison would be the Legacy 560... but the Beechjet is still a stouter airframe.

The passengers will be the ones that really notice the difference, the cabin of the Beechjet is a lot more comfortable.

Another point is that the S-II is an older airframe... depending on what you start with you could have a fairly late model Beechjet 400A or even a Hawker 400XP, either of these airframes are available at prices that make sense.

I'm skeptical, but if they pull this off... it could be huge!


Chip,
Great points! We're partial to how our 3-place divan opens up the cabin in the 400's.

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 Post subject: Re: Nextant single pilot?
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2018, 11:28 
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Very nice!

That flat floor...

Makes all the difference.

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 Post subject: Re: Nextant single pilot?
PostPosted: 31 Oct 2018, 13:45 
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Bump. Saw Jim at NBAA. He seemed quite confident it’s going to happen. As a SPE. suspect early 2019.

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 Post subject: Re: Nextant single pilot?
PostPosted: 28 May 2019, 13:01 
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Haven't seen any updates to Nextant's site regarding the SPE on the 400 (still shows "2+7/9 passengers.")

Anybody have any recent information regarding the early 2019 rumor?

Thanks!

CJ


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