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24 Apr 2024, 19:38 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Sold my A36 for PA46
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2018, 09:23 
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Joined: 02/27/08
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Location: Galveston, TX
Aircraft: Malibu PA46-310P
Username Protected wrote:

Put all that stuff on a Bo and it's gonna cost too. Malibu costs would make a 58P owner weep for joy and a Bo owner cry in pain.


Of course. But it's not the extra systems/complexity that jumps out from the logbooks. Not even the engine. It's fuel pumps, gear parts, actuators, avionics failures, and other things, often being replaced within few hundred hours, either because it failed or it reached a disturbingly (at least to me) short TIS limit. It's what seems like a lot of SBs (recognize optional) and ADs getting CW. If it were just a matter of paying to maintain the extra stuff, such as the windshield, I'd have one by now. That's to be expected.


Russell,

It seems that most of the SBs get treated like required maintenance on a PA46. For a plane that flies in the flight levels most people want to step up the maintenance game. Deferred maintenance on a Malibu is not a good idea.

Take a Bonanza to Biggs in Oklahoma for seven annuals and a top overhaul and let me know the numbers. I spent $42,000 on two annuals with Biggs when I first bought my bonanza. That did included a top overhaul, ruddervators, side glass and fixing everything else before paint shop. Don't even give them a squawk list because if its not right they will find it. Phenomenal shop and great people.
Kevin

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 Post subject: Re: Sold my A36 for PA46
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2018, 15:41 
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Joined: 04/16/12
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Location: Keller, TX (KFTW)
Aircraft: '68 36 (E-19)
Username Protected wrote:
O course, "fuel pumps, gear parts, actuators, avionics failures, and other things" are not necessarily Piper quality issues.


Yeah, neither would they be Beechcraft quality issues in a Baron or Bonanza, right? But yet, these items seem to fail in this plane at an early and alarming rate. Why? How many SBs and ADs on Baron gear? How many on the Malibu/Mirage? Suggest you review some logbooks for late model Mirages and then report if you think there's any "there" there.

:whiteflag:

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 Post subject: Re: Sold my A36 for PA46
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2018, 16:03 
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Username Protected wrote:

Russell,

It seems that most of the SBs get treated like required maintenance on a PA46. For a plane that flies in the flight levels most people want to step up the maintenance game. Deferred maintenance on a Malibu is not a good idea.

Take a Bonanza to Biggs in Oklahoma for seven annuals and a top overhaul and let me know the numbers. I spent $42,000 on two annuals with Biggs when I first bought my bonanza. That did included a top overhaul, ruddervators, side glass and fixing everything else before paint shop. Don't even give them a squawk list because if its not right they will find it. Phenomenal shop and great people.
Kevin


Fair enough Kevin. Rather than talk theoretically or hypothetically, you own a Malibu. I realize it's an older model and I don't know how long you've owned it, but what's been your experience? What does the logbook history say re. "premature" parts failures, replacements, SBs and ADs? Adjusting for things like FIKI and pressurization, no worse than a Bo you've owned? I'd find that hard to believe.

For comparison, recognizing it's not apples to apples comparison given each plane's complexity, but here's the list of parts that have failed or been replaced on my Bo with less than 500 hours TIS over the 7 years and 1300 hrs I've owned and flown this plane:

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 Post subject: Re: Sold my A36 for PA46
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2018, 16:28 
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Joined: 08/16/15
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Location: Ogden UT
Aircraft: Piper M600
I have owned several PA46's mostly new, but have been very impressed with the Piper build quality. I have had some things replaced over the years, but almost never Piper stuff. Usually boxes made by somebody else. Whether Garmin, Bendix, Pratt, or Lycoming. The airframe itself is actually amazingly reliable and mature. They are complex aircraft, and the performance is exceptional. I have had dispatch rates that rival the airlines with respect to both maintenance and weather. The things that break or wear out on the PA46 are well known, but it depends on the specific model year, engine and airframe. I don't think there are any parts in common between a 1984 Malibu and a 2018 M600. The PA46 has probably had more upgrades and modifications in its lifetime than any other small GA airframe. Almost every year Piper upgraded some aspect of the airframe, avionics and or engine. All that innovation has been associated with SB's AD's and some growing pains, but the evolution of the airframe is awesome.

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Chuck Ivester
Piper M600
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 Post subject: Re: Sold my A36 for PA46
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2018, 17:53 
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Joined: 02/27/08
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Location: Galveston, TX
Aircraft: Malibu PA46-310P
Username Protected wrote:

Russell,

It seems that most of the SBs get treated like required maintenance on a PA46. For a plane that flies in the flight levels most people want to step up the maintenance game. Deferred maintenance on a Malibu is not a good idea.

Take a Bonanza to Biggs in Oklahoma for seven annuals and a top overhaul and let me know the numbers. I spent $42,000 on two annuals with Biggs when I first bought my bonanza. That did included a top overhaul, ruddervators, side glass and fixing everything else before paint shop. Don't even give them a squawk list because if its not right they will find it. Phenomenal shop and great people.
Kevin


Fair enough Kevin. Rather than talk theoretically or hypothetically, you own a Malibu. I realize it's an older model and I don't know how long you've owned it, but what's been your experience? What does the logbook history say re. "premature" parts failures, replacements, SBs and ADs? Adjusting for things like FIKI and pressurization, no worse than a Bo you've owned? I'd find that hard to believe.

For comparison, recognizing it's not apples to apples comparison given each plane's complexity, but here's the list of parts that have failed or been replaced on my Bo with less than 500 hours TIS over the 7 years and 1300 hrs I've owned and flown this plane:


Russell,
I have only owned this plane five months. But, like you I have scoured through many logbooks before purchase. I was only looking at the 1984-1988 models, so I haven’t seen what you have seen on the newer models. I knew to expect to pay more at each annual because of the increased complexity and capabilities of this airplane. Nothing in the logbooks scared me away from ownership. From the numbers I have seen I would think it would be $100 to $150 more an hour than a Bonanza (NA). I always thought the bonanza when all was said and done was about $250an hour to operate. Those numbers are real loose estimates based on other people’s experience. I do not track the cost of ownership on my airplanes. Just finished the annual last week. No ADs or SBs to address since they have been previously complied with.

I’m sure somebody has better numbers than me on this stuff. If you are interested join MMOPA, they have a very good ownership group.

When I look in the back of the Malibu and my wife is setting wayyyyyyy back there with her feet propped up and reading a magazine I know it’s worth it. Ohh, and the air stair door, 5.5 psi cabin (gave away my O2 system) and a wing you can watch flex in turbulence! Wait, that last one was not a positive.
Kevin

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 Post subject: Re: Sold my A36 for PA46
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2018, 19:53 
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Joined: 02/20/16
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Aircraft: 7GCAA, BO-105
I thought that tail number seemed familiar... I had a magneto failure while instructing a previous owner in that airplane about two years ago.


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