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 Post subject: Great Lakes prebuy and Ceconite punch test/repair needed
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2018, 11:15 
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Joined: 12/30/15
Posts: 1697
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Location: Charlotte
Aircraft: Avanti-Citabria
I am interested in a Great Lakes bi plane located in northern Alabama.
Anyone know of an expert somewhere between/close to Alabama or Charlotte,NC.

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 Post subject: Re: Great Lakes prebuy and Ceconite punch test/repair needed
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2018, 15:29 
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Joined: 01/29/09
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Company: retired corporate mostly
Location: Chico,California KCIC/CL56
Aircraft: 1956 Champion 7EC
Brad, have you tried Jones Barnes up at Statesville? He is kind of old school and may have the equipment to punch test and patch.

Iredell Air Care - Rachel and Jones Barnes
(704) 873-5341

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Jeff

soloed in a land of Superhomers/1959 Cessna 150, retired with Proline 21/ CJ4.


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 Post subject: Re: Great Lakes prebuy and Ceconite punch test/repair needed
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2018, 15:32 
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Joined: 11/19/09
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You don't "punch" test Ceconite..................

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 Post subject: Re: Great Lakes prebuy and Ceconite punch test/repair needed
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2018, 18:07 
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Joined: 11/25/11
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Location: KGNF, Grenada, MS
Aircraft: Baron, 180,195,J-3
Username Protected wrote:
You don't "punch" test Ceconite..................


I bought a Decathlon that had its Ceconite punch tested one time. :bugeye: The "repair" made a heck of a mess.
:doh:
Jg

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 Post subject: Re: Great Lakes prebuy and Ceconite punch test/repair needed
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2018, 18:54 
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Joined: 04/16/10
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Location: Wisconsin
Aircraft: CJ4, AmphibBeaver
Linen is the substrate that requires punch testing. Stits poly fiber and Ceconite I believe do not, and like JGG said, it does more damage than good.


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 Post subject: Re: Great Lakes prebuy and Ceconite punch test/repair needed
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2018, 19:28 
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Joined: 01/29/09
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Company: retired corporate mostly
Location: Chico,California KCIC/CL56
Aircraft: 1956 Champion 7EC
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/c ... tester.php

I guess it would only "punch" if it was really bad!

(you made me look it up...)

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Jeff

soloed in a land of Superhomers/1959 Cessna 150, retired with Proline 21/ CJ4.


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 Post subject: Re: Great Lakes prebuy and Ceconite punch test/repair needed
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2018, 20:08 
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Joined: 09/10/13
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Location: Lexington, KY
Aircraft: B95A Z526F SU26
I’ve got a Maule lunch tester. I used it to check the original ceconite fabric on an “always hangared” 1972 Citabria GCAA about five or six years ago. When looking through an inspection hole on the underside of the wing, you could see daylight through the paint cracks on the upper surface everywhere. Per a textbook, it should have been shot. I wasn’t ready to do the official fabric strip test, so I used the Maule tester and punched the top wing in one of the worst offending locations thinking it would practically fall right though. It was at 70 when I gave up, having to readjust my hand position and ladder footing at the same time. I declared the plane airplane airworthy for another several years after that.

My opinion is that if the fabric is synthetic and the physical appearance is decent, then it will pass any minimum acceptance standard of the FAA. there are always exceptions, but most fabric planes are hangared these days, and that makes a good synthetic fabric job practically “lifetime” even if the aesthetic topcoats are showing their age.

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 Post subject: Re: Great Lakes prebuy and Ceconite punch test/repair needed
PostPosted: 09 Jul 2018, 18:17 
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Joined: 12/30/15
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Location: Charlotte
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I left a message with Jones Barnes a couple days ago :popcorn:

Ok Karl,
How do you Inspect Ceconite?
I think the answer is probably take an Expert along?

I had what some would call a plastic airplane (Columbia 350) first.
My second is metal

My third airplane will have the third wheel positioned corectly :pilot:

Other than that the Jury is still out:

Great Lakes

Citabria

Champ

Stinson
There is a Gullwing Stinson across the pond
I absolutley forget all reason just looking at the pictures :drool:

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 Post subject: Re: Great Lakes prebuy and Ceconite punch test/repair needed
PostPosted: 09 Jul 2018, 22:14 
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Joined: 11/25/11
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Location: KGNF, Grenada, MS
Aircraft: Baron, 180,195,J-3
Brad,

I think this one is still for sale. Only $450,000. :woot:

But please don't let anyone punch test the ceconite. :ohno:

Jg


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 Post subject: Re: Great Lakes prebuy and Ceconite punch test/repair needed
PostPosted: 09 Jul 2018, 22:29 
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Joined: 11/19/09
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Location: Wright Brother Award
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Username Protected wrote:
I left a message with Jones Barnes a couple days ago :popcorn:

Ok Karl,
How do you Inspect Ceconite?
I think the answer is probably take an Expert along?

I had what some would call a plastic airplane (Columbia 350) first.
My second is metal

My third airplane will have the third wheel positioned corectly :pilot:

Other than that the Jury is still out:

Great Lakes

Citabria

Champ

Stinson
There is a Gullwing Stinson across the pond
I absolutley forget all reason just looking at the pictures :drool:



Well Brad...................you made me look it up!!!! Best seems to send a test sample to Ceconite, and let them do it!

http://www.conaircraft.com/ceconite-manual.pdf

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 Post subject: Re: Great Lakes prebuy and Ceconite punch test/repair needed
PostPosted: 09 Jul 2018, 22:44 
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Joined: 01/29/09
Posts: 4693
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Company: retired corporate mostly
Location: Chico,California KCIC/CL56
Aircraft: 1956 Champion 7EC
That is a funny manual.... pg 92-93 are about testing.

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Jeff

soloed in a land of Superhomers/1959 Cessna 150, retired with Proline 21/ CJ4.


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 Post subject: Re: Great Lakes prebuy and Ceconite punch test/repair needed
PostPosted: 10 Jul 2018, 11:32 
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Joined: 11/06/13
Posts: 403
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Location: KFTW-Fort Worth Meacham
Aircraft: C208B, AL18-115
I had a PA-14 that was recovered in 1983. I sold it in 2014 and the fabric was fine. The new owner is a knowledgeable airplane guy (as opposed to me) and he is still flying it with the 35 year old ceconite.

Frankly, I would be much more worried about the condition under the fabric than the condition of the fabric. You can see lose tapes and bad paint. You can't see the rust inside the tubing.


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 Post subject: Re: Great Lakes prebuy and Ceconite punch test/repair needed
PostPosted: 10 Jul 2018, 14:16 
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Joined: 12/30/15
Posts: 1697
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Location: Charlotte
Aircraft: Avanti-Citabria
I need to throw in towel on first Great Lakes bird.
Listed as “excellent condition” by owner and was under contract.
Prospective buyer saw plane and backed out.
Pics do not show ugly whole in side that was patched by a blind monkey.

Second prospect is a “cream puff”...so says the owner...it might be....BUT

Top of wing is ceconite and rest is cotton....if it looks good from 5 feet away and is in good shape does this matter?

Lycoming IO-360 only flown 268 hours since factory overhaul in 1997.....

From what I have heard from BT experts over the last few years one would have to consider this engine as near timed out?

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 Post subject: Re: Great Lakes prebuy and Ceconite punch test/repair needed
PostPosted: 10 Jul 2018, 19:21 
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Joined: 11/25/11
Posts: 9168
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Location: KGNF, Grenada, MS
Aircraft: Baron, 180,195,J-3
Brad,

Believe it or not :bugeye: , I owned a 2T-1A-2 many years ago. A great flying airplane if you don't overuse the brakes. Likely as prone to nosing over as any tail wheel airplane I know. The one I had had gone over on its back, but it was properly repaired and you could find no evidence of the damage.

Don't buy a junker unless you intend to recover.

They were making them new awhile back, don't know if they are still doing so.

Jg

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 Post subject: Re: Great Lakes prebuy and Ceconite punch test/repair needed
PostPosted: 10 Jul 2018, 20:36 
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Joined: 04/16/10
Posts: 2031
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Location: Wisconsin
Aircraft: CJ4, AmphibBeaver
Find this one. Prop to tailwheel resto about 8 yrs ago. Was perfect when I sold it to a gent up the Dakotas 3-4 yrs ago


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