BeechTalk - BT - Swan Song For Citation X: Farewell To Fastest Civil Aircraft

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 Jun 2018, 17:44

Username Protected wrote:

I had no clue that there was a relationship between Lockheed and Cessna.

What he meant was

Cessna 172... Cessna Citation X Mach .9

Lockheed Vega... Lockheed SR-71 Mach 3

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 Jun 2018, 18:56

Username Protected wrote:

I had a friend once tell me he’d be skeptical to fly .9 in anything built by the company that made the 172.

Right. That's for Boeings.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 Jun 2018, 19:09

Username Protected wrote:

Wait, wasn't Concorde the fastest civil aircraft?

The Citation X was the fastest plane ever built without the help of taxpayer money. The Concorde's cost were subsidized by the French and British Governments

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 Jun 2018, 19:25

I used to drool over the 750 when I was 2-3yrs old, and still do. It's about as good of a ramp queen as you can get in the biz jet class.... the SJ30 is up there, too.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 24 Jun 2018, 01:55

Username Protected wrote:

The Citation X was the fastest plane ever built without the help of taxpayer money. The Concorde's cost were subsidized by the French and British Governments

Ahem, you're claiming Cessna doesn't enjoy government subsidies and tax breaks?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 24 Jun 2018, 11:00

Username Protected wrote:

Ahem, you're claiming Cessna doesn't enjoy government subsidies and tax breaks? :)

Such as...?

Don't be a lazy accuser without specifics.

I'm not aware of any government grants, tax breaks, or subsidies for the Citation X development program. Certainly nothing of the substantial nature that Concorde enjoyed.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 25 Jun 2018, 10:47

Username Protected wrote:

I had a friend once tell me he’d be skeptical to fly .9 in anything built by the company that made the 172.

Sounds like an ignorant comment from a self-proclaimed expert who doesn’t know as much about airplanes as he thinks he does. There are plenty of those out there.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 25 Jun 2018, 21:38

Username Protected wrote:

Wait, wasn't Concorde the fastest civil aircraft?

The Citation X was the fastest plane ever built without the help of taxpayer money. The Concorde's cost were subsidized by the French and British Governments

Username Protected · **Posted:** 25 Jun 2018, 22:20

Wright Flyer was built without public money. 30 mph, Mach 0.039

Username Protected · **Posted:** 25 Jun 2018, 22:25

Username Protected wrote:

Wright Flyer was built without public money. 30 mph, Mach 0.039

Meanwhile, Langley was taking government grants to ungracefully plop things into the river.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 25 Jun 2018, 22:56

I flew the Mighty X for 17 years. It was an awesome plane. Of course some will comment on its reliability but to me if you take a Ferrari and run it like a New York taxi cab you shouldnt be surprised when it breaks. .

Early on it was common for other aircraft to query ATC as to the speed. It was also common for ATC to “lose” us due to the speed. A listening watch on guard was always a good idea!

Even when the older examples had no problem flying at .90+. My personal record was Santa Ana to Baltimore in less than 3 hours (admitting with an awesome tailwind).

Service ceiling was advertised at FL510 but the highest I took it was FL490. At that altitude the aircraft wasn’t happy. It felt like it was balancing on the head of a pin. Its best altitude was between FL430 and FL470.

I fly a much newer Citation now which is much more comfortable and modern avionics. I like the new plane but it’s not a 10!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 26 Jun 2018, 00:00

Username Protected wrote:

F-20 tigershark was built without public money. Mach 2, 1,320 mph.

It was only built as prototypes - experimental - never a production plane.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 26 Jun 2018, 00:10

Username Protected wrote:

F-20 tigershark was built without public money. Mach 2, 1,320 mph.

It was only built as prototypes - experimental - never a production plane.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 26 Jun 2018, 04:28

Username Protected wrote:

Ahem, you're claiming Cessna doesn't enjoy government subsidies and tax breaks?

Such as...?

Don't be a lazy accuser without specifics.

I'm not aware of any government grants, tax breaks, or subsidies for the Citation X development program. Certainly nothing of the substantial nature that Concorde enjoyed.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 26 Jun 2018, 09:26

Username Protected wrote:

things like GARA are pretty much a government subsidy.

How much money did Cessna receive from the government under GARA to develop the Citation X?

$0.

A reform of liability laws is not a subsidy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_A ... zation_Act

BTW, the Citation X development program was started years before GARA.

Quote:

I can't be arsed to dig deep into this

At this point, I don't see any evidence you know anything about how the development program of the Citation X was funded.

Mike C.