BeechTalk - BT - New Cirrus-SR18?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Jun 2018, 12:19

I would say that executing manufacturing well and running a light plane business that meets delivery commitments and is profitable, is itself the greatest innovation in GA for quite some time.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Jun 2018, 13:02

Username Protected wrote:

I would say that executing manufacturing well and running a light plane business that meets delivery commitments and is profitable, is itself the greatest innovation in GA for quite some time.

They have mostly done well on that score.

But:

Certainly didn't meet SF50 development timeline. Finally delivered only about 8 years late.

Canceled the Cirrus SRS, Cirrus entry into the LSA market.

Almost went bankrupt in 2010, 2011, had stopped paying rent, laid off workers, paying vendors, etc. Chinese bought them in June 2011.

Without the Chinese investment, may not be a Cirrus today, and certainly no SF50.

If being sold to the Chinese is "innovation", then Cirrus has that, though I will point out that is hardly a new strategy for US businesses.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Jun 2018, 13:15

Username Protected wrote:

Innovation is "making changes in something established, especially by introducing new methods, ideas, or products."

Provide a list for Cirrus.

Cirrus SR series is an excellent execution of established ideas. Cirrus is not a creator of new ideas.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Jun 2018, 13:43

Username Protected wrote:

The following is limited to the light airplane market.

Composite manufacturing
Auto-kilns
10 inch MFD. First from airplane manufacturer
PFD, first from airplane manufacturer
BRS (Chute)
ESP
Blue button for wing level
First touch screens
Direct sales model, no channel
Helping Cirrus owners sell the plane, helping prospective owners buy used

You didn't spend enough time Googling.

I'd be surprised if more than one of the above is found to be first at Cirrus.

BTW, the "button for wing level" was a feature on Brittain autopilots on Mooneys roughly 50 years ago.

Or are you claiming the fact the button is colored blue is the innovation?

The other aspect of the list is that it is mostly outside vendor supplied equipment and materials, not Cirrus.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Jun 2018, 13:55

Have they ever officially declared bankruptcy? If not, that's gotta be pretty innovative in the aviation world....

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Jun 2018, 13:58

Username Protected wrote:

The following is limited to the light airplane market.

Composite manufacturing
Auto-kilns
10 inch MFD. First from airplane manufacturer
PFD, first from airplane manufacturer
BRS (Chute)
ESP
Blue button for wing level
First touch screens
Direct sales model, no channel
Helping Cirrus owners sell the plane, helping prospective owners buy used

You didn't spend enough time Googling.

I'd be surprised if more than one of the above is found to be first at Cirrus.

BTW, the "button for wing level" was a feature on Brittain autopilots on Mooneys roughly 50 years ago.

Or are you claiming the fact the button is colored blue is the innovation?

The other aspect of the list is that it is mostly outside vendor supplied equipment and materials, not Cirrus.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Jun 2018, 13:59

Username Protected wrote:

Have they ever officially declared bankruptcy? If not, that's gotta be pretty innovative in the aviation world....

lol, no they have not filed for BK.

Tim

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Jun 2018, 14:00

Quote:

BTW, the "button for wing level" was a feature on Brittain autopilots on Mooneys roughly 50 years ago

As I recall, the Mooney system was an always on wing leveler, I remember people putting rubber bands on the button on the yoke to disable the system. I don't remember it having any pitch correction.

The blue button is a save your @ss button , Mooney PC was not.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Jun 2018, 14:18

Username Protected wrote:

As for the Brittain A/P. That is not the same thing, if you are in an unusual attitude and hit the "blue button" in a Cirrus it will level the wings and bring you back to straight and level without over stressing the plane. The Brittain will maintain an existing wing level function.

Nope, it would bring the plane to wings level.

From a Mooney forum:

"A modern GA autopilot has a "blue button" to bring wings level. You pay extra for that. Mooney and Brittain were doing this over 50 years ago...they just didn't market it as well."

It was a particular feature back then that didn't carry forward, not what are thinking of as a Brittain autopilot.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Jun 2018, 14:19

Username Protected wrote:

Have they ever officially declared bankruptcy? If not, that's gotta be pretty innovative in the aviation world....

Cessna has not declared bankruptcy way before Cirrus didn't do it.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Jun 2018, 14:24

ok, I'm convinced. The moller skycar was WAY more innovative than cirrus. Thank goodness we had moller to come along and save GA from extinction.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Jun 2018, 14:35

Username Protected wrote:

Cessna has not declared bankruptcy way before Cirrus didn't do it.

Mike C.

Of course. Thanks for the correction. I guess they're "in good company", but not outstanding in this respect.

;-)

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Jun 2018, 14:40

Quote:

Nope, it would bring the plane to wings level

Gotta hand it to ya, even wrong, you stick to your guns!

Quote:

Among the high points of the Mooney's handling qualities is excellent longitudinal stability. Trim it for an airspeed, and it tends to hold it without much work on the pilot's part. Most models made in the 1960s used what Mooney called "PC," or positive control. It was a simple vacuum-based wing leveler that was always on; you had to press a button on the control wheel to interrupt it for maneuvering.

https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft-an ... mooney-m20

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Jun 2018, 14:48

Username Protected wrote:

As for the Brittain A/P. That is not the same thing, if you are in an unusual attitude and hit the "blue button" in a Cirrus it will level the wings and bring you back to straight and level without over stressing the plane. The Brittain will maintain an existing wing level function.

Nope, it would bring the plane to wings level.

From a Mooney forum:

"A modern GA autopilot has a "blue button" to bring wings level. You pay extra for that. Mooney and Brittain were doing this over 50 years ago...they just didn't market it as well."

It was a particular feature back then that didn't carry forward, not what are thinking of as a Brittain autopilot.

Mike C.