And that could be either the 525 or the 560 in the garage.

And then there's the engine program versus not. You can easily save a ton of money with a JT15D. Or, the Williams program can save your bacon.

I think you will find a CJ2 and a 560 cost about the same to fly per mile when given roughly equivalent circumstances. The 560 will burn more fuel. The CJ2 will cost more in engine program and parts.

You can't really ignore purchase cost. A brand new CJ3+ will cost less to fly than either the CJ2 or 560. But then it slowly becomes not so brand new any more.

Mike C.

Unless you are flying strictly for personal use I don’t think this is the way to evaluate an airplane. The capital structure matters a great deal in the overall cost of ownership and the tax consequences of ownership can make an enormous difference. I’ve spreadsheetrd a lot of airplanes and it is surprising what the leveling effect on overall costs can be if you have a recapture potential on a current aircraft. Also, the volatility of depreciation potential (based on your forecast of fuel prices and avionics upgrade capability) has a big impact on cost forecasts. When you include the final disposition after tax cash flow, as compared to the all in annual or per mile forecast, the picture changes again and you to ask what your intentions are at that point: take your medicine and pay your taxes or buy another airplane? Then what? More or less expensive? The current law makes trading up look attractive on a cash flow basis but it lays a potential trap down the road.

A lot of what underlies this conversation is personal preference and orientation. My brother and step father buy and drive ancient vehicles that others have decided have no further practical value. They live in inexpensive homes and do all their own maintenance work of every kind. They value cash in the bank more than freedom of time or the pleasure of nicer transportation, living,etc. nothing at all wrong with that. I prefer newer, hassle free and nicer things that someone else takes care and I write a check. Perfectly ok too. Airplanes are the same I think. We just construct elaborate arguments to justify our choice as the “best”. Well, it probably is. For us.

Horses for courses.

If you are a Cessna Service Center kind of owner, the CJ2 should be cheaper to own (not figuring cap cost and depreciation). CJ2 burns less 45-65GPH less fuel. In addition, the 560 has more parts, the planes are older and the fleet has more hours/airframe.

However since the 560's are older there are likely to be a lot more used parts and alt parts supplier options so if you are a more "actively involved in maintenance" kind of owner, you may be able to save the fuel-burn difference by finding cheap parts and maintenance.

Williams program is expensive. But buying new parts from P&W isn't cheap either. If the availability of used engines and used engine parts for the JT8D's dries up, I think the "Williams is more expensive" argument dries up with it.

Two reasons to own a jet:
1) you want to play with it
2) you want to save time

If #1 is your only reason, then hunting around for used parts and discount maintenance might be a good use of your time.

Or find an independent shop who has good sourcing options for PMA and used parts.

Mike C.

Mustang is 1460 lbs Thrust -- Up high 75 - 80 GPH

Thanks John, previously before buying the II we ran the numbers comparing the two planes and they are pretty close to what you are doing. Yours is a great plane, amazing how the between the airframe and motors they can get that much better thrust and efficiencies.

We recently flew an 1100 trip into 30kts and our block fuel burn was 1012 lbs or 151 gph block at FL410. Out of home we carry max fuel 5008 lbs and we can still manage to get another 1400 lbs of bodies and gear at 14500 gross.

Gary

What year II is this?

Is the 14,500 max gross increased by any STCs or other mods from the original factory weight?

Mike C.

What year II is this?

Is the 14,500 max gross increased by any STCs or other mods from the original factory weight?

Mike C.

I was wondering how that weight was achieved.

I think this is what you were referring to:

http://www.newflight.com/CessnaCitation ... rease.html

The trade off is some reduction in ZFW, max operating temps, longer runway usage (obviously), and lower landing gear life.

Price is $35K. Seems to include/require new wheels/brakes.

Mike C.

I was wondering how that weight was achieved.

I think this is what you were referring to:

http://www.newflight.com/CessnaCitation ... rease.html

The trade off is some reduction in ZFW, max operating temps, longer runway usage (obviously), and lower landing gear life.

Price is $35K. Seems to include/require new wheels/brakes.

Mike C.

that's it

Yes, I was thinking that this was an option when you hit brake overhaul.

I wonder how they substantiated the structural requirements (say wing spar) without data that only Textron would know. My guess is that they used the Bravo as a reference, basically saying it has the same wing at 15,000 lbs. Shows a good amount of margin in the design.

Mike C.

They are charging $24K for new wheels and brakes. Then you have to spend a few AMU for installation. Not a bad price if you need a brake job. More parts in this kit then a normal brake job and more installation cost.

What kind of hours are you getting out of the brakes on the 525A?

Yes we have the New Flight STC and its only on the older 550 not the CJ2. The 550 is larger and heavier than the CJ2 by a couple feet.

Gary