18 Apr 2024, 05:38 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Jet Posted: 05 Jun 2018, 22:57 |
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Joined: 10/05/11 Posts: 9575 Post Likes: +6444 Company: Power/mation Location: Milwaukee, WI (KMKE)
Aircraft: 1963 Debonair B33
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Yuri, Picture a Puddle Jumper toy. Like this one... https://www.google.com/search?q=puddle+ ... pbpK0D1LGMNow imagine another with the same blade size, but at zero pitch so it doesn’t spin when dropped. The spinning puddle jumper falls much more slowly. The faster it spins the slower it falls. Not sure how to offer a clearer example.
_________________ Be Nice
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Jet Posted: 05 Jun 2018, 23:28 |
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Joined: 12/10/07 Posts: 8002 Post Likes: +6882 Location: New York, NY
Aircraft: Debonair C33A
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Username Protected wrote: Another piece of evidence of just how much drag the prop is.
How so?
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Jet Posted: 05 Jun 2018, 23:29 |
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Joined: 01/31/10 Posts: 13101 Post Likes: +6970
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Username Protected wrote: Coincidentally, if you land with a truly windmilling prop (mixture out), the prop will typically stop spinning right before or just after the touch-down. Which means there is no longer enough energy to spin it at this point. ;) Another piece of evidence of just how much drag the prop is. Oddly enough, the engine idling will cause the prop to have more drag than if it stops. Such is the counter intuitive nature of prop aerodynamics. Mike C.
The prop on a Bonanza with an IO-550 stops at just above 30kias.
Are you trolling Yuri or what?
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Jet Posted: 05 Jun 2018, 23:36 |
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Joined: 12/10/07 Posts: 8002 Post Likes: +6882 Location: New York, NY
Aircraft: Debonair C33A
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Username Protected wrote: Yuri, Picture a Puddle Jumper toy. Like this one... https://www.google.com/search?q=puddle+ ... pbpK0D1LGMNow imagine another with the same blade size, but at zero pitch so it doesn’t spin when dropped. The spinning puddle jumper falls much more slowly. The faster it spins the slower it falls. Not sure how to offer a clearer example. I have no idea where you are going with this. The question isn't whether the prop creates drag, everyone knows that it does. The question is, how much drag compared to the rest of the airframe.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Jet Posted: 05 Jun 2018, 23:36 |
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Joined: 12/10/07 Posts: 8002 Post Likes: +6882 Location: New York, NY
Aircraft: Debonair C33A
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Username Protected wrote: The prop on a Bonanza with an IO-550 stops at just above 30kias.
Are you trolling Yuri or what? I've heard testimonials that the prop on a Bonanza stops right around the touch-down, which would be around 60-70 kts. I know people have been able to stop the prop in flight, and they were obvisouly flying faster than 30 kias.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Jet Posted: 05 Jun 2018, 23:56 |
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Joined: 01/31/10 Posts: 13101 Post Likes: +6970
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Username Protected wrote: I've heard testimonials that the prop on a Bonanza stops right around the touch-down, which would be around 60-70 kts. I know people have been able to stop the prop in flight, and they were obvisouly flying faster than 30 kias.
This is the problem with hangar BS. I did it. Here is the vid. Go to 3:20. [youtube]http://youtu.be/lj5OdrArlsk[/youtube]
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Jet Posted: 06 Jun 2018, 00:39 |
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Joined: 01/01/11 Posts: 964 Post Likes: +599 Company: Well, it's UA now Location: Houston, TX
Aircraft: B-787 & C55
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Wow, good thing you were near that river in case you had to put it down somewhere off airport.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Jet Posted: 06 Jun 2018, 09:21 |
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Joined: 08/16/15 Posts: 2894 Post Likes: +3602 Location: Ogden UT
Aircraft: Piper M600
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If you want to see how much drag a Turboprop propellor can throw out, check this out. Descending at 12.5 degrees nose down, 2250 fpm in the descent, and airspeed stuck at 96 KIAS. I got dive-bombed from 3500 ft on the downwind to let an F35 cross under me. Once cleared, no problem getting down with a normal traffic pattern at Vref on short final. If you ever need to glide in a TP after engine loss, really need to feather that prop or you are looking straight down for your landing zone. Attachment: 1.jpg
Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.
_________________ Chuck Ivester Piper M600 Ogden UT
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Jet Posted: 06 Jun 2018, 21:44 |
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Joined: 12/10/07 Posts: 8002 Post Likes: +6882 Location: New York, NY
Aircraft: Debonair C33A
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Username Protected wrote: This is the problem with hangar BS.
I did it. Here is the vid. Go to 3:20.
You are not the only one. Here is another video, with quite different result. [youtube]https://youtu.be/3-bhqX3W1XY[/youtube]
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Jet Posted: 06 Jun 2018, 22:41 |
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Joined: 01/31/10 Posts: 13101 Post Likes: +6970
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Username Protected wrote: This is the problem with hangar BS.
I did it. Here is the vid. Go to 3:20.
You are not the only one. Here is another video, with quite different result. [youtube]https://youtu.be/3-bhqX3W1XY[/youtube]
He feathered them. That is why they are turned sideways and not windmilling.
I have more and more faith in Cirrus pilots and their jet...
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Jet Posted: 06 Jun 2018, 23:00 |
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Joined: 08/15/11 Posts: 2395 Post Likes: +1058 Location: Mandan, ND
Aircraft: V35
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Username Protected wrote: I have more and more faith in Cirrus pilots and their jet...
Wow! What a great quote!
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Jet Posted: 06 Jun 2018, 23:40 |
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Joined: 12/10/07 Posts: 8002 Post Likes: +6882 Location: New York, NY
Aircraft: Debonair C33A
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Username Protected wrote: He feathered them. That is why they are turned sideways and not windmilling.
Good point. Did he feather this one too? [youtube]https://youtu.be/J2PI_QmvRTQ[/youtube]
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Jet Posted: 07 Jun 2018, 09:14 |
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Joined: 01/31/10 Posts: 13101 Post Likes: +6970
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Username Protected wrote: He feathered them. That is why they are turned sideways and not windmilling.
Good point. Did he feather this one too? [youtube]https://youtu.be/J2PI_QmvRTQ[/youtube]
What is the point of these posts?
Propped stopped when striking ground on that vid.
So how ‘bout that Cirrus Jet? :D
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Jet Posted: 07 Jun 2018, 21:26 |
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Joined: 12/10/07 Posts: 8002 Post Likes: +6882 Location: New York, NY
Aircraft: Debonair C33A
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Username Protected wrote: What is the point of these posts? Propped stopped when striking ground on that vid. So how ‘bout that Cirrus Jet? I don't see the prop striking the ground. The point was to illustrate that the prop will normally stop right around landing speed of 60 kts or so. Not that it matters - it was just an observation that you took an issue with for some reason. As for Cirrus Jet - it has been proven already that it will stop under 5,000 ft without using brakes, which was the crux this discussion.
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