28 Mar 2024, 16:33 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Username Protected
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Post subject: Re: What is the actual cost to own a new Cirrus? Posted: 16 May 2018, 11:38 |
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Joined: 01/06/08 Posts: 6270 Post Likes: +3066 Location: Pottstown, PA (KPTW)
Aircraft: 1965 Debonair C33
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Username Protected wrote: Got curious what it would actually cost to have an SR22 for private use.
Let's assume a $750K new Cirrus with a 5 year spinner to tail warranty. No business use. You sell at the end of 5 years, having flown 750 hours. Assume 20% down and the rest financed.
$600K loan at 5% per year is $150K in interest Asking prices for 5 year old 22's seem to be around $600. Call it resale at $550 and that's $200K depreciation Insurance at 1% hull will be $38K for 5 years. 750 hours * 16 gallons * $5 = $60K Maintenance should be nil Surprises should be nil
Above totals $448K. That's a lot of cashflow for sure. You can get some traction with fractionals for $100k/yr.
But if you're sitting on $750K of cash and don't count cost of capital And you have business use and can write off the deduction
I can see how they sell. Plus hangar costs, data costs. Are oil changes covered by warranty? $5 fuel is cheap if you travel. Even if your home base has $5 fuel, you'll pay more on trips. It is a lot of money.
_________________ President, Northeast Bonanza Group
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Username Protected
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Post subject: Re: What is the actual cost to own a new Cirrus? Posted: 16 May 2018, 12:26 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23613 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: So round everything up to $500k/5 years Interest ($150K) and depreciation ($200K) are most of it and can be quite variable depending on the exact owner situation and the market conditions. My last 5 years of my MU2 have cost me about $380K for fuel, maintenance, hangar, insurance, taxes. Hull value lost is about $50K over that time ($100K since I bought it 10 years ago). 5% interest on a $400K loan would be $100K over 5 years (if I had a loan, but just to be fair). So net about $530K value change, $380K actual money out the door, over 5 years and about 600 hours (which is more miles than 750 hours of an SR22). You left out hangar, taxes, and owner paid maintenance (oil, tires, batteries, etc). All that is included in my numbers, about $40K worth. So, the total cost of ownership for a new SR22 versus a 40 year old MU2 are about the same over a 5 year span. Amusing. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Username Protected
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Post subject: Re: What is the actual cost to own a new Cirrus? Posted: 16 May 2018, 12:49 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23613 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: Taxes - forgot that. Easy to imagine $50k in sales or property taxes. Up to $550 total. Varies WILDLY depending on where you are. Sales tax: 7% in Indiana, can be 0% in some states. Property tax: I pay $100/year. Some states are very high, $thousands/year. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Username Protected
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Post subject: Re: What is the actual cost to own a new Cirrus? Posted: 16 May 2018, 13:04 |
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Joined: 08/16/15 Posts: 2867 Post Likes: +3576 Location: Ogden UT
Aircraft: Piper M600
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My warranty did not cover annuals, and you won't see a $2000 annual, especially at a Service Center where you better go if you want warranty coverage. Actually, my 3 annuals averaged 5700/year, that was primarily the inspections with some non-warranty stuff like tires/brakes/filters. There were some in between annual maintenance as well like oil changes, but not bad.
_________________ Chuck Ivester Piper M600 Ogden UT
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Username Protected
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Post subject: Re: What is the actual cost to own a new Cirrus? Posted: 16 May 2018, 13:08 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23613 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: If I were wealthy enough to buy and operate the new Cirrus, I wouldn't be in the market for one. 355 SR series were delivered last year, so it has a market. They account for about 1/3rd of all piston airplane deliveries. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Username Protected
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Post subject: Re: What is the actual cost to own a new Cirrus? Posted: 16 May 2018, 13:27 |
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Joined: 08/16/15 Posts: 2867 Post Likes: +3576 Location: Ogden UT
Aircraft: Piper M600
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What is left out, is that Cirrus and the Cirrus family take pretty good care of you. A new Cirrus is predictable in cost, spends very little time in the shop, is easy to fly, very capable, has an out, if you ever need it. Could you do something similar with less money? Sure, but then you are probably spending more time, whether it be training, supervising or doing maintenance, putting up with legacy aircraft gotchas, or flying something less capable. Many people flying these have a good bit of money, and their time is equally expensive. So it works pretty well. Moderate money and time in, great lifestyle out.
_________________ Chuck Ivester Piper M600 Ogden UT
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Username Protected
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Post subject: Re: What is the actual cost to own a new Cirrus? Posted: 16 May 2018, 13:35 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23613 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: ... whether it be training How much time, per year, would a Cirrus pilot invest if they did all the recommended training? A day a year, maybe? Cirrus definitely promotes doing more training than the typical piston single. That has had a positive effect on the accident history, but it does come at a cost of pilot time and diligence. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Username Protected
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Post subject: Re: What is the actual cost to own a new Cirrus? Posted: 16 May 2018, 14:39 |
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Joined: 12/19/11 Posts: 3302 Post Likes: +1424 Company: Bottom Line Experts Location: KTOL - Toledo, OH
Aircraft: 2004 SR22 G2
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Depreciation on new can vary wildly depending on how you buy and how / when you sell. I know of examples where owners have lost $150K in 2 years and others where they lost less than $50K in 2 years from new.
Also, if you know what / when to buy, you can greatly minimize depreciation on used sales. As an example, I bought a G3 2012 SR22T and operated it for 18 mos and sold it for $10K less than I paid for it, which basically accounted for the cost of engine time. That's not necessarily the norm but can be done.
My current costs (on a used Cirrus are):
- Note: 4.4% financing - you do the math on how much this will cost on the hull value you're looking at - Depreciation - 2%-6% / yr (if you buy used and buy / sell OK) - Insurance - $3,600 / yr for $1M smooth on $585K hull - Fuel - figure 17-18 gph to be conservative - Oil changes - every 30 hours - $300 - $400 ea (includes blackstone & camguard) - Annuals - $6-8K / yr - Hangar - I pay roughly $400 / mo for an executive hangar - Subscriptions - $800 / yr (Jepp - G1000), $1,200 / yr for XM (I subscribe to the highest level subscription which includes their icing product) so $2,000 / yr - Ongoing mx - $30-40 / hr. Tires, brakes, mags, oil changes (probably double counting oil changes here), stuff that just breaks - TKS fluid - varies depending on usage but I go through at least a barrel / yr @ $700 / barrel
I figure DOCs run in the $150 - 175 / hr range including engine reserves and regular mx. My all in costs on my G3 (everything - including loan payments) ran about $325 / hr for 300 hrs / yr.
_________________ Don Coburn Corporate Expense Reduction Specialist 2004 SR22 G2
Last edited on 16 May 2018, 16:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Username Protected
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Post subject: Re: What is the actual cost to own a new Cirrus? Posted: 16 May 2018, 18:35 |
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Joined: 03/11/15 Posts: 152 Post Likes: +114 Company: Trailhead Partners Location: Austin, TX
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Username Protected wrote: What is left out, is that Cirrus and the Cirrus family take pretty good care of you. A new Cirrus is predictable in cost, spends very little time in the shop, is easy to fly, very capable, has an out, if you ever need it. Ease of ownership is a big draw I would think. A family member had a 421, Cheyenne III, and a Klingon before moving to a Cirrus. His kids are grown and his most common flight is two people, 250nm. He says the Cirrus is the best plane he's ever owned.
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