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 Post subject: Re: Vashon Ranger, new S-LSA
PostPosted: 23 May 2018, 07:54 
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One big difference is the high wing, no RV will ever be even a ok float plane. Greg


Maybe, but i think this one is pretty cool nevertheless. There are 2 RV float planes that I'm aware of. This is an RV-7 and the first was an RV-6.


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 Post subject: Re: Vashon Ranger, new S-LSA
PostPosted: 23 May 2018, 10:09 
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Username Protected wrote:
One big difference is the high wing, no RV will ever be even a ok float plane. Greg


Maybe, but i think this one is pretty cool nevertheless. There are 2 RV float planes that I'm aware of. This is an RV-7 and the first was an RV-6.


I agree it looks very cool. But a low wing float plane is very impractical, can’t dock it, hard to impossible to get in and without getting wet, etc.
You want to watch a disaster? Just watch someone docking a low wing float plane.
The Vashon was designed to be a LSA float plane, two different worlds.

Greg

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 Post subject: Re: Vashon Ranger, new S-LSA
PostPosted: 23 May 2018, 12:11 
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Other low wing float planes.


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 Post subject: Re: Vashon Ranger, new S-LSA
PostPosted: 23 May 2018, 13:48 
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I’m not sure you can consider a Beech 18 on floats a “low” wing. The wing is about the same height off the water as a 180 on floats. :D

Greg


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 Post subject: Re: Vashon Ranger, new S-LSA
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2018, 11:15 
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At the text blurb for an interview at OshKosh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSPraJef1Tk
:

"One criticism that has been observed is an empty weight that limits payload compared to other LSA. Fortunately for Vashon and other manufacturers, FAA is now actively working on regulation change that could lead to a higher gross weight for Light-Sport Aircraft …but that’s a topic for another article."

That is a risky plan. FAA is known to drag their feet, and all the while you aren't selling, while paying all the staff. But hey, if it works out, you get your modern 150 for $100k. I would not get anything with O-200 ever again, but if this turns your crank, why not?


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 Post subject: Re: Vashon Ranger, new S-LSA
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2018, 12:30 
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I would not get anything with O-200 ever again


Why?


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 Post subject: Re: Vashon Ranger, new S-LSA
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2018, 12:40 
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I would not get anything with O-200 ever again


Why?



There is no need to buy a new aircraft with a new engine when that engine is known as the most likely engine to suffer carb ice and has continuing problems with stuck valves. There have been no upgrades to that engine since before WW II. Either of the problems can cause an unexpected off-airport landing. I average a serious carb ice incident a bit more often than once every 100 hrs.
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 Post subject: Re: Vashon Ranger, new S-LSA
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2018, 13:22 
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(snip)


There is no need to buy a new aircraft with a new engine when that engine is known as the most likely engine to suffer carb ice and has continuing problems with stuck valves. There have been no upgrades to that engine since before WW II. Either of the problems can cause an unexpected off-airport landing. I average a serious carb ice incident a bit more often than once every 100 hrs.


That makes me wonder if there's something amiss with your 150.

I have several hundred hours behind O-200s (and C-85s) spread over 38 years and currently own a 150C. I can't remember any "serious" incidents in that time, and I've got time in at least 7 different 150s, and 4 or more 120/140s with similar setup that I can recall off the top of my head.

I'm not criticizing, just a little concerned. This part of the world can get very humid in the summers, and we certainly are at risk for induction icing, but we are aware and reflexively apply carb heat at the first sign of power loss or stumbling.


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 Post subject: Re: Vashon Ranger, new S-LSA
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2018, 13:25 
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There have been no upgrades to that engine since before WW II.
Not true. The O-200-D model used in the Ranger is more recent than the LSA regulations, from the early 2000s. Shaving over 10% of the engine weight required upgrades of crankshaft, cylinders, pistons, and camshaft, as well as starter and alternator. The -AF (Alternative Fuels) model is even newer.


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 Post subject: Re: Vashon Ranger, new S-LSA
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2018, 13:37 
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Shaving over 10% of the engine weight required upgrades of crankshaft, cylinders, pistons, and camshaft, as well as starter and alternator.

Dave, you're getting me curious. What're your numbers and what's included? The one I operate with are 190 lbs for O-200-A and 177 lbs for O-200-D (-D4D), which are supposedly official. They include engine and carburator, but not alternator and starter. (190-177)/190 = 6.8% savings. Hardly 10%, and adding accessories makes it worse. But I may be ignorant.


Last edited on 10 Aug 2018, 13:37, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Vashon Ranger, new S-LSA
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2018, 13:37 
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That makes me wonder if there's something amiss with your 150.


Do you live in a marine environment? That makes all of the difference in the world.

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 Post subject: Re: Vashon Ranger, new S-LSA
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2018, 13:51 
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Username Protected wrote:
Do you live in a marine environment? That makes all of the difference in the world.

like a cub on floats in Minnesota ?

the O-200 and it's predecessors, are the gold standard for ~100hp power in light planes to this day. To suggest it has some fundamental danger associated with it is laughable.


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 Post subject: Re: Vashon Ranger, new S-LSA
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2018, 14:46 
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That makes me wonder if there's something amiss with your 150.


Do you live in a marine environment? That makes all of the difference in the world.


Environmental was my first thought after reading your response. But I’ve wagged a 150 all over the humid south without a wheeze due to carb ice. And if I ever had a stuck valve I was too stupid to recognize it. I’ll admit I’ve never operated anything in the Bay Area that didn’t burn Jet A.


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 Post subject: Re: Vashon Ranger, new S-LSA
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2018, 14:51 
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Do you have 90% humidity days in a desert environment (California central valley that is near a marine environment)? on a clear and a million day climb straight to 7,500 feet level off and pull back the throttle to 2,500 and instant carb ice.

I am also a member of the C150/C152 group where that are numerous posts about 0-200 being ice makers. Attended, flew from CA) their rally in Clinton Iowa. We had numerous discussions about carb ice. It is very dependent on where in the country you live in. California is bad. Many members, I included, refuse to ride in C150s without a carb temp gauge.
The carb temp gauge will not tell you that you are making ice it will only tell you if you could be making ice.

Also had a long discussion with one of the top people who worked at Continental an now works for LyCon (or did about 4 years ago).

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 Post subject: Re: Vashon Ranger, new S-LSA
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2018, 14:57 
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Location: Peachtree City GA / Stoke-On-Trent UK
Aircraft: A33
my airplane is also prone to carb ice on power reductions, so i have a lever in the cockpit that causes warm air to be diverted to the carburetors.

my airplane can run hot in the climb, so i have a lever in the cockpit that opens cowl flaps for more cooling air when needed

my airplane is hard to taxi with the belly scraping the ground, so i have a lever in the cockpit that causes wheels to be extended before landing

I see no difference in any of those 3 functions. None of them represent design defects.


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