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 Post subject: M600 comprehensive Pirep (long)
PostPosted: 06 May 2018, 09:52 
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Joined: 08/16/15
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Location: Ogden UT
Aircraft: Piper M600
I have been recently interviewed by a couple of people articles on the M600. That has made me reflect on the aircraft. I have read several M600 articles, but have yet to see an article that I thought was completely factually correct. I understand that technical writing is way harder than it looks. Just thought after closing in on 430 hours in our M600, serial #30, I would Pirep the aircraft from a real world owner perspective. Tried to leave the emotional stuff out, with just the facts.

What is hot?

1. Factory support and communication: Excellent. Certainly Piper has been in touch the M600 owners and has offered concierge type support. They have been very committed to the operational success of the M600 and owner satisfaction all as part of their effort to be more involved with the customer experience.
2. Fit and finish: Excellent for a SETP. Seats are well made, and custom EXP paint and interior options can be arranged through the factory. Parts are solid and should hold up well.
3. Operating costs through one annual, all-inclusive minus cost of capital and depreciation: Under $400/hr. flying 300-400 hours per year, literally with no expense spared, every database and accessory available and 5 mil smooth insurance. With some minor attention, I would imagine you could get the costs to around 350/hr.
4. Range: Better than advertised, at normal cruise power settings you will get 262 KTAS resulting in 1350 nm no wind range. You can increase range with power reduction 240 KTAS yields 10% more range, or if you take advantage of the fact that the tanks can hold more than the spec’d 1740 lbs 1 nm per lb. of extra fuel. The most I have loaded is 1900 lbs, which would increase, range another 160 nm to 1510 nm at normal cruise with reserves. Using all the tricks over 1600 nm no-wind at reasonable speeds is possible but have to have a real good reason to be in the plane that long. Long Range cruise on full tanks would be a very long in the plane, few will use that. My longest flight with a little push was 1853 nm Anchorage to Ogden Utah non-stop at 240 KTAS, departing with 1800 lbs of fuel. Not bad, but I was ready to be on the ground by the end ;-)
5. Our full fuel payload is 600 lbs in the cabin starting at ramp weight. Payload for a 1000 nm trip is 1000 lbs at normal cruise. Payload for an 800 nm trip is 1200 lbs at normal cruise, making it a true 6 adult aircraft if needed.
6. Turbulence handling: Best of the PA46’s, would rate it as good, but that is a big wing that looks for turbulence. Wing loading is around 29 lbs/sq ft at GW.
7. Speed has been about 5 knots above book, and so we flight plan about 262 knots using slightly lower than recommended normal cruise torque settings. Talking with the Piper lead engineer, he said they were very conservative in the POH, and the performance tables did not take into account the likely better performance of the Hartzell 5 blade scimitar prop which is an option. Hartzell claims better take off and cruise performance, data not available as far as I know. They just state it is at least as good as the 4-blade. In cruise at normal settings, we get a convenient 1 nm range per lb. of fuel.
8. Vmo 251 KIAS, MMo 0.55 Mach so it can keep up with most of the jets in the terminal. Still not fast enough to flow on the arrivals. It is easy to maintain 200 KIAS to near the FAF when asked by ATC.
9. Climate control: Excellent heating; although it is a challenge to keep the passengers warm enough without cooking the crew. Automatic climate control which is a set it and forget event is convenient. Circulating the heat to the back can be a challenge when very cold, but having the circulation fan on with the eye vents open pulls cool air from the back, which pushes the warmer air from the front to the back. Need to keep passengers from completely closing those eye vents.
10. Ice handling: Excellent. Best of the PA46’s, with a more robust and technologically advanced ice protection system. With typical climb rates and descent rates icing encounters are typically short lived and as there is no inertial separator to open, climb and cruise performance in icing and in IMC is the same as in clear air. That is atypical for many turbines, which lose power in icing conditions. The icing system is tied to the AOA, and adjusts the envelope protection and flap limitations for ice in case the pilot forgets.
11. Pressurization is automatic and controlled by the FMS automatically entering departure and arrival field elevations.
12. Full envelope protection, coupled go around and automatic autopilot engagement if the plane algorithm detects an out of control pilot.
13. Blue level button will return the plane to wings level and level cruise; can be activated by the pilot or passengers in case of a pilot issue. Will not allow the plane to stall once engaged.
14. Technology and redundancy: Excellent and the airframe is well integrated with the 3-screen G3000. Multiple separate busses are in place and each screen has enough redundancy to complete an IFR flight even in the extremely unlikely event of multiple failures.
15. Situational awareness: All 3 screens can be split, with customized information, which makes flipping pages almost a thing of the past, once you find the setup that works for you.
16. Weather in flight: Radar can be overlaid on the moving map, and you can even have multiple radar tilts on separate screens at the same time. I commonly will have radar and Stormscope overlaid on one moving map, and Nexrad and Nexrad lightning on the panel next to it, giving a great view of convective weather from multiple sources.
17. All the new options like Visual approaches that can couple to the AP, Surface watch, satellite com and phone, electronic checklists are available.
18. Traffic is an 80 nm true TCAS I coupled with active and ADS-B traffic that can monitor innumerable targets. Has been very accurate. Hard to see aircraft with closing rates above the speed of sound.
19. The audio panel is very powerful. The radios, onboard and accessory entertainment options can easily be piped selectively to pilot, copilot and rear seat passengers. Split coms are as simple as a button push on the GTN 1 or 2 touchscreen in 2 crew operations.
20. Fuel system is dirt simple. Fully automatic tank balancing, so nothing to do in flight except make sure there is enough fuel. The oil fuel heat exchanger is more robust than on previous P46T versions, and I have yet to see the fuel get below the inflight limit of -34, which would necessitate a decent. I came close on a -54C flight, but the air is not usually that cold in the high twenties.
21. The backup alternator is rated at 130 amps so it can run all the equipment in normal IFR, night, icing conditions, so a load shed procedure in the unlikely event of a generator failure is not necessary.
22. CAS messages are visual aural and when appropriate clear voice like “airspeed”, “check Gear” etc. All the typical gear warnings are in place with new for the M-series, the TAWs being used to enlist a red CAS with clear voice warning if the plane is descending below 400 ft. AGL without being in landing configuration regardless of flap and power settings. Making it nearly impossible to land gear up…. Never underestimate determined pilots.
23. Ground handling: It is good, best of the PA46’s, the main gear are spaced more rearward, and wider with larger higher pressure, higher speed main tires. There is still a tendency to want to over-control the nose steering. If you are a rudder flyer it is an easy transition but pilot induced oscillations needs to be monitored.
24. Brakes are beefed up from the other PA46’s and braking is excellent although with Beta and reverse, seldom necessary.
25. Climb is brisk especially when not at max GW, but even at GW will climb over 1000 fpm into the high twenties, higher down low
26. Decent is excellent. No need to pull back power from cruise with the high MMo/Vmo, optimal descents are 2000 fpm, but can range from 1000-3000 fpm easily depending on need or desire.
27. Maintenance: We have had essentially no unscheduled maintenance outside of the AD/SB’s that affected the lower serial #'s should be an issue of the past. The plane is pretty much an annual-to-annual flyer, with the occasional addition of turbine oil and compressor washes. Main tires are good for 300-400 landings; other expendables are beta blocks on the prop, prop heat brushes, generator brushes, and brakes to monitor in high use aircraft between annuals.
28. Cockpit and cabin lighting is phenomenal, with piezo electric backlighting that illuminates all the switches, CB’s, and placards, LED track-lighting front and back with LED map lights in all positions, all highly adjustable. Flying at night is a pleasure in this plane.
29. The passenger cabin is excellent. Up to 51 inches wide, and the seat bases are farther apart than most cabin class club seat planes, leaving pretty good legroom. There are 6 USB ports and 2, 110V plugs as well as a pull out table to give passengers ample support for their electronic devices. The seats are very comfortable for long trips, and passengers can move around and go front to back for a change of scenery.
30. For a small prop it is quiet and vibration is minimal with the 5-blade composite prop. Still loud enough that headsets are recommended.
31. The highly derated engine makes over-temp conditions very unlikely. Even on a hot day, quick applications of power on the ground won’t cause ITT excursions, and there is no inertial separator to remember to open or close.
32. Rosen 3-axis visors are awesome, and a recommended item if not stock at this point.
33. The new passenger pull down shades are more robust than the previous versions, and less prone to deformation.
34. A unisex relief tube is available for in-flight needs, but it is recommended to wash the bottom of the plane after use, whereas I recommend chemical pack travel Johns to prevent that need.
35. Short, hot and high performance is excellent. Would be hard to find a paved airport in the US that the plane could not land and take off on even the hottest of days at GW, but a review of performance tables would be in order as always.
36. 5-year airframe and 7-year engine warranty with 1800 HSI and 3600 hr. TBO. Makes the first half-decade of ownership pretty predictable on the cost front.
37. The single engine PT6 is extremely reliable, but having at least a16:1 glide ratio gives you a 75 nm no wind glide at 28,000 feet.


What is not?
1. Cockpit is still on the smaller side, but once in place the seats are very comfortable, seems to be the roomiest of the PA46’s though.
2. Ground air-conditioning is fair but not automotive quality. Need to use sunshades when parked on the ground to keep the cabin from becoming heat soaked. Consider taking off earlier in the day on hot days, but plane cools quickly once climbing where the heater is far more important.
3. The plane has an aft CG, which for many may not matter. If you want to put a big load in the back, may need the free optional front ballast kit, which places incrementally up to 80 lbs of ballast in the nose. We have just 18 lbs. of ballast up front, which works for our family with 2 adults growing kids and luggage. Some flights will need to have my wife or heaviest son sit up front, but once in cruise, I let people sit wherever they want, as long as weather and turbulence are not severe. I recheck W&B on landing and if necessary will rearrange passengers for landing. However as the CG moves forward with less fuel, the aft CG is less of an issue on landing.
4. Earlier serial numbers had a wing AD and several SB’s that don’t apply to later serial numbers. Piper has completed all those with excellent support.
5. The G3000 has 5 computers, that each has a copy of the full databases on them. Nice that each can operate independent of the others with systems failures, but that means they all have to sync to the current databases. With proper technique the database upload and sync takes 15 minutes for partial cycle updates and up to 30 minutes for full cycle updates. In that case ground power is recommended for updates. I usually use update time to do other plane activities, like cleaning or servicing tires, doing detailed inspections, or hangar maintenance. But not as fast as the old G1000.
6. The G3000 is incredibly amazing, but has so much capability that it can be overwhelming. The manual is over 600 pages. Coming from a G1000, expect 25 hours of touch screen time, to feel comfortable. Once you learn the G3000, going back to a G1000 seems like a big step back in technology.
7. The navigational radios are hidden on the GTN, which means a touch and a finger slide to see the Navs. Can seem a little clunky if you are navigating in the green world in our GPS Universe.
8. There is no clock on the PFD in split screen mode, minor complaint but with 3, 12-inch screens, there is room?? In full screen you have the clock.
9. 5.6-PSI differential means that at 28,000 feet cabin altitude is over 9000 feet, which may be an issue for some. Also the computer pressurization will not give the whole differential in its algorithm, Piper is looking into that, hopefully as update at some point.
10. Baggage is limited to 100 lbs, but is fairly roomy at 20 Cu Ft. It can take 1 full size suitcase and several mid-size and small ones. The most efficient packing is with soft bags. With 5-6 people on board that entails packing very efficient and light.

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Chuck Ivester
Piper M600
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 Post subject: Re: M600 comprehensive Pirep (long)
PostPosted: 06 May 2018, 10:29 
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Nice write-up Chuck, I'm ready for an M600!

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 Post subject: Re: M600 comprehensive Pirep (long)
PostPosted: 06 May 2018, 10:42 
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What doesit use for engine ice protection insteadof an inertial separator?


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 Post subject: Re: M600 comprehensive Pirep (long)
PostPosted: 06 May 2018, 10:54 
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Great read Chuck. Thanks for taking the time to put all this information together!


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 Post subject: Re: M600 comprehensive Pirep (long)
PostPosted: 06 May 2018, 11:25 
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Location: Ogden UT
Aircraft: Piper M600
Username Protected wrote:
What doesit use for engine ice protection insteadof an inertial separator?


The Meridian/M500 and M600 use a specially designed cowl that has a full time IS built in. There are 2 large air intakes, at the back of which there is an IS at the turn of the airstream where particulates with too much mass to make the turn are exhausted. The benefit is that it is optimized for airflow at all times, the drawback is that it leaves a little power off the table, which Piper addressed by fitting it with a bigger PT6 than the plane needs. In essence it is on all the time, but is efficient enough that it still has good fuel specifics and performance. Another theoretical benefit is that with 2 large intakes, and a bird blender up front, with 2 retrograde intakes, it would be all but impossible to starve the engine with a bird ingestion... And I can confirm that the engine will run and fly with the intake covers in place...... Don't ask me how I know. :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: M600 comprehensive Pirep (long)
PostPosted: 06 May 2018, 11:38 
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So you got jet fever yet? :D

great write up!! :thumbup:

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 Post subject: Re: M600 comprehensive Pirep (long)
PostPosted: 06 May 2018, 11:54 
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Username Protected wrote:
So you got jet fever yet? :D

great write up!! :thumbup:


I have looked at a few jets. I keep coming back with the fact that so many of my missions are not jet friendly. Short missions, VFR hops, Introductory and training flights, short, high, hot and contaminated fields. The efficiency and capability of the TP in many of those cases is unparalleled. I do many missions every year that jet would be nice like a recent transcontinental flight to Raleigh and back. Can get long with winds on the nose. If only I could have a fleet of planes. I did feel a little more comfortable though on the flight into KC to drop off a passenger. Risk for embedded convection, which turned out to be a non-issue, x-winds on the ILS 18 gusting into the twenties, blowing rain and the G650 on the ILS behind us noting 20 knots wind shear that we didn't even notice in the TP, since our speed control and power changes are almost instantaneous. Having a plane that feels like the shirt on your back in bad weather is comforting. Would be a long time before I had that kind of confidence in myself flying a jet. Maybe one day.

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 Post subject: Re: M600 comprehensive Pirep (long)
PostPosted: 06 May 2018, 12:04 
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Nice write up Chuck! Thanks.

You mentioned that the cockpit remains a bit tight - I’m 6’ 4” - I have sat in PA46 with modified seat position and it was workable - any thoughts on the M600 for my height?


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 Post subject: Re: M600 comprehensive Pirep (long)
PostPosted: 06 May 2018, 12:22 
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Username Protected wrote:
3. Operating costs through one annual, all-inclusive minus cost of capital and depreciation: Under $400/hr. flying 300-400 hours per year, literally with no expense spared, every database and accessory available and 5 mil smooth insurance. With some minor attention, I would imagine you could get the costs to around 350/hr.

A new airplane should require minimal maintenance, so this is not too surprising.

Your high usage helps amortized the fixed costs (taxes, insurance, hangar, database) over more flying hours. At $400/hour, 400 hours, $160K/year.

Do you have break out for insurance, hangar, fuel, maintenance, etc?

Are you including any reserves for engine, prop, paint, interior? Or is this strictly dollars spent divided by hours flown in a given year?

Are you on the engine program? What would that cost per hour?

Quote:
With typical climb rates and descent rates icing encounters are typically short lived

Isn't power wonderful to avoid ice? :-)

Quote:
as there is no inertial separator to open, climb and cruise performance in icing and in IMC is the same as in clear air. That is atypical for many turbines, which lose power in icing conditions.

The M600 has an inertial separator built into the air inlet system, you simply can't turn it off so that simplifies things for the pilot.

TPE331, many other turboprops, and all jets don't have inertial separators. That's mostly a PT6 thing due to bringing in the air from the back.

Quote:
5.6-PSI differential means that at 28,000 feet cabin altitude is over 9000 feet

9,320 ft. That can be tiring on along flight, which is precisely when you want to go high for the range.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: M600 comprehensive Pirep (long)
PostPosted: 06 May 2018, 12:55 
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Good write up Chuck,

Piper fix the payload and range with the M600 vs the Meridian.

Is there any timed components or recommended parts overhauled from Piper beside the prop and PT6 engine?

Anything on the gear and actuators?

With this extra range I guess there is a future for a M700 with an higher gross weight?

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 Post subject: Re: M600 comprehensive Pirep (long)
PostPosted: 06 May 2018, 13:54 
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I recently toured the piper facility.
It was impressive. The wing on the 600 is a great improvement.
Cc


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 Post subject: Re: M600 comprehensive Pirep (long)
PostPosted: 06 May 2018, 14:46 
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Thank you for the detailed write up. I have been thinking and looking whats next after my Baron B58 and pressurization is a must. I taxied in and parked beside a M600 in Thunder Bay Ontario a while back and was very impressed with the aircraft.


Brenda

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 Post subject: Re: M600 comprehensive Pirep (long)
PostPosted: 06 May 2018, 15:06 
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Chuck,

Are the wing and fuselage assemblies still life limited at 5100 and 6100 hours? Is there any talk of extending that or how to deal with it?


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 Post subject: Re: M600 comprehensive Pirep (long)
PostPosted: 06 May 2018, 18:11 
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Thanks for taking the time Chuck. Sounds like a great plane!

The 100 lb baggage limit is surprising...is the only baggage area behind the rear seats with no space between the firewall and engine?
Obviously you can put bags in the passenger area with fewer paxs, but 100 lbs seems like a limiting factor for a 6 seat plane.

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 Post subject: Re: M600 comprehensive Pirep (long)
PostPosted: 06 May 2018, 18:46 
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Username Protected wrote:
Nice write up Chuck! Thanks.

You mentioned that the cockpit remains a bit tight - I’m 6’ 4” - I have sat in PA46 with modified seat position and it was workable - any thoughts on the M600 for my height?


The newer PA46's have the seat back bracket that goes over instead of in front of the wing spar, so should be similar to the mod that you saw on the other aircraft. They also widened the cockpit by redesigning the panels, and have a cut out for the head as well. I find that reclining the seats also helps. There is a little more room on the pilot side since the copilot side is restricted a little by the behind the seat cabinet over there. So should work for you. I am 6'2/205+ and actually could pull the seat up 1 click and still feel fine. The seats are 3 way positioned, so make sure they are also all the way down. One of the more popular PA46 instructors is 6'5 and he fits in even the legacy birds, so pretty sure you would find it adequate.

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Piper M600
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