banner
banner

29 Mar 2024, 02:35 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Concorde Battery (banner)



Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SR22T....uh, NICE!
PostPosted: 08 May 2018, 15:44 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 04/05/10
Posts: 1165
Post Likes: +743
Company: C-Star Inc
Location: 16FL Florida & T67 Texas
Aircraft: J35, N14DF
Sam is a regular on BT, and also owns a very nice Bo.
Give him a PM, I am sure he will be glad to show off the demo plane.
I saw it the morning before he went to see Gary. It is indeed a sweet ride.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SR22T....uh, NICE!
PostPosted: 08 May 2018, 16:24 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 01/29/16
Posts: 1337
Post Likes: +1824
Company: RE/MAX at the Lake
Location: Mooresville, NC
Aircraft: Cirrus SR22
Username Protected wrote:

When I look at one I like and then do a NAAA appraisal on them, they are always way overpriced over the appraised value. What gives?
\


I think there are several factors effecting purchase prices in most airplanes, Cirrus too. I believe Rick Ott started a thread about rising demand and sales prices of A36s too. Improving economy probably has a lot to do with that.

We bought a 2006 SR22 1 year ago. I started shopping 6 months earlier for the plane and could see prices going up with inventory going down in that short 6 month period. I kick myself for not jumping on a couple of the first ones I found because the prices easily went up 10% in 6 months.

If airplane appraisals are similar to house appraisals they will not be a predictor for a moving market. A house appraisal looks at houses that recently sold over the last 6 months. If the market is moving up then the appraisal will be low compared to what a buyer is willing to pay.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SR22T....uh, NICE!
PostPosted: 09 May 2018, 13:49 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 01/01/12
Posts: 248
Post Likes: +63
Aircraft: A36
Are the ask prices and the sale prices close? The ask prices sure seem high. Edward


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SR22T....uh, NICE!
PostPosted: 12 May 2018, 18:38 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 07/08/11
Posts: 417
Post Likes: +186
Location: KHPN
Aircraft: E55
A new SR22T is close to a million dollars now :bugeye: It's a sweet ride for sure, but for a million dollars there are a lot of other choices, all with their advantages and disadvantages. For that much money something with a turbine engine(s) would be higher on my list. Wouldn't be new, but seems like more bang for the buck.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SR22T....uh, NICE!
PostPosted: 12 May 2018, 19:07 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 02/13/10
Posts: 20103
Post Likes: +23514
Location: Castle Rock, Colorado
Aircraft: Prior C310,BE33,SR22
New planes are EXPENSIVE!

A new SR22 now starts at $609,900; with all the options, air conditioning, and ice protection, it's up to $809,000.

The SR22T starts at $709,900; with A/C, FIKI, and all the fancy options, it looks like it's about $930,000.

I'm not sure one can still get a new G36 Bonanza, but they were $850,000 a year ago and they don't do "T" or FIKI; the G58 Baron a year ago was $1.4 million.
:bugeye:

_________________
Arlen
Get your motor runnin'
Head out on the highway
- Mars Bonfire


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SR22T....uh, NICE!
PostPosted: 12 May 2018, 19:42 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 08/20/09
Posts: 2395
Post Likes: +1858
Company: Jcrane, Inc.
Location: KVES Greenville, OH
Aircraft: C441, RV7A
Username Protected wrote:
Are the ask prices and the sale prices close? The ask prices sure seem high. Edward

Word on the street is the ask price is the sale price right now, everything is selling.

_________________
Jack Stull


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SR22T....uh, NICE!
PostPosted: 12 May 2018, 23:40 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 02/09/09
Posts: 5552
Post Likes: +2504
Location: Owosso, MI (KRNP)
Aircraft: 1969 Bonanza V35A
Username Protected wrote:
I'm thinking of buying a SR22 to use in a local dry lease arrangement. (I'm not selling my Baron)!

When I look at one I like and then do a NAAA appraisal on them, they are always way overpriced over the appraised value. What gives? I am trying to sell a pretty clean T-Saratoga now and its not sold yet and its priced well below appraisal value.

Is it that they are that popular, and all the new pilots infatuated with glass that much. I really don't get it. :popcorn:


I my opinion, the NAAA appraisal is a joke. In 2015, my bank required an appraisal by a NAAA certified appraiser when I financed the avionics in it, result was $265-285k. Two years later, many improvements, and ~100 hours more, I refinanced it to finance a business purchase. Same NAAA appraiser, $168k.

I had a discussion with a busy broker that's a friend of mine about it. He comment was, where does he get his data from? Put some thought into that for a minute.. Has anyone on here ever been called and asked for the actual sale price by the NAAA or Blue Book, etc.? I haven't once in the ~20 airplanes that I've owned or represented.

The appraiser's answer was the market tanked on almost all piston twins (in 2015-2017). Um, yea, BS...

I've yet to figure out what makes the NAAA a "expert" other than they have a formal sounding name... But they are the only ones my bank would accept...

Jason


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SR22T....uh, NICE!
PostPosted: 13 May 2018, 08:02 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 06/22/11
Posts: 55
Post Likes: +12
Location: KPWM
Aircraft: SR22T
Arlen,

You are close. A totally loaded NA 22 is closer to $840-850 with FIKI, AC, sat phone, etc. The GTS with FIKI doesn’t include AC - a $30K option. An equally mind-numbing predicament is that an early March 18 order would result in a mid-December 18 delivery with a delivery rate of nearly a plane/day.

Having said all of that - Wow, the OP is correct, they really are impressive.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SR22T....uh, NICE!
PostPosted: 13 May 2018, 08:10 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 09/02/09
Posts: 8415
Post Likes: +8303
Company: OAA
Location: Oklahoma City - PWA/Calistoga KSTS
Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
The price is not the cost. I think most Cirrus new aircraft are sold to repeat customers, or those likely to become one. The ultimate price is the difference between new and used selling price. Based on comments here about rising used prices it’s possible that new Cirrus are actually getting cheaper.

_________________
Travel Air B4000, Waco UBF2,UMF3,YMF5, UPF7,YKS 6, Fairchild 24W, Cessna 120
Never enough!


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SR22T....uh, NICE!
PostPosted: 13 May 2018, 08:24 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 02/13/10
Posts: 20103
Post Likes: +23514
Location: Castle Rock, Colorado
Aircraft: Prior C310,BE33,SR22
It certainly is interesting -- and a good thing -- that Cirrus can keep selling their planes and pumping them out in an ever-improved state over the years.

When we bought our new one in 2004 (an SR22 G2 with no TKS, TN, or A/C), it was $336,000; these 2004 models still list in the $200-250K range 14 years later. That was a great plane; the new ones are many steps better.

_________________
Arlen
Get your motor runnin'
Head out on the highway
- Mars Bonfire


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SR22T....uh, NICE!
PostPosted: 13 May 2018, 09:13 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 03/27/16
Posts: 169
Post Likes: +39
Location: Boulder CO (KBDU, KLMO)
Aircraft: SR22
Rick to have a link to your T Saratoga?


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SR22T....uh, NICE!
PostPosted: 13 May 2018, 13:40 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 12/30/15
Posts: 714
Post Likes: +740
Location: NH; KLEB
Aircraft: M2, erstwhile G58
Username Protected wrote:
I'm thinking of buying a SR22 to use in a local dry lease arrangement. (I'm not selling my Baron)!

When I look at one I like and then do a NAAA appraisal on them, they are always way overpriced over the appraised value. What gives? I am trying to sell a pretty clean T-Saratoga now and its not sold yet and its priced well below appraisal value.

Is it that they are that popular, and all the new pilots infatuated with glass that much. I really don't get it. :popcorn:


Cirrus is a marketing machine... in 2017 the worldwide piston market was 1,085 units sold, Cirrus were 377 units or 35% of the market. WW piston sales increased from 1,019 units in 2016 to 1,085 units in 2017, or 64 planes. Cirrus piston sales increased from 320 to 377; 57 units or nearly 90% of the total increase in worldwide piston sales. Beech went backwards... 45 pistons sold in 2016 (25 Bos and 20 Barons) to 36 pistons sold in 2017 (13 Bos and 23 Barons).

Beech marketing is anemic.

Everyone is entitled to their tastes, opinions, choices, etc. Before buying in 2016 we looked at piston singles and piston twins. Looked very hard at the Cirrus. We ended up with a Baron because we thought it provided the best capabilities in the piston market. Build is rock solid. Ability to deal with icing is not dependent upon how much fluid is on board. Performance is outstanding. Single engine performance is surprisingly good in the unlikely event of losing one.

When you get done and look at net pricing, a new Baron is not that much more than a new Cirrus. Yet we believe a more capable travel aircraft. The Baron is also tremendous fun to fly. Does Cirrus have a great product? Of course. Is it 10x or 12x better than what Beech has to offer? I don't think so. (the market evidently does). But once again Beech's marketing is terrible. The do very little to proactively sell the advantages of a twin.

No matter what they may say, I don't believe that Textron cares about their Beech piston lines at a corporate level. Cirrus on the other hand are passionate about their piston product, convey and transfer that passion to their customers.

Textron sells a lot of Cessna singles, Cessna SETPs, Cessna jets, and to a certain extent King Airs. Their actions speak loudly. No resources behind their Beech pistons. Which is a shame because the Baron is an very capable piston twin, that should be selling at higher numbers. Very hard to beat the Baron capabilities for piston travel, reliability and just plain fun to fly. But the numbers, unfortunately, tell a different story.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SR22T....uh, NICE!
PostPosted: 13 May 2018, 14:13 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 03/10/11
Posts: 2030
Post Likes: +693
Location: Allen, TX (based T31)
Aircraft: BE35,CE650/750,DA900
Looking forward to riding his new toy! :)

_________________
Paul Sergeant, ATP/CFI etc, Bonanza pilot.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SR22T....uh, NICE!
PostPosted: 13 May 2018, 17:37 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 10/16/10
Posts: 426
Post Likes: +94
Location: SLC
Aircraft: A220/737/757/DC9/B55
Username Protected wrote:
Are the ask prices and the sale prices close? The ask prices sure seem high. Edward

Word on the street is the ask price is the sale price right now, everything is selling.


I think Jack is correct. Everyone I have talked to says the Cirrus are selling for pretty much asking price, which always seems high to me!

Top

 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SR22T....uh, NICE!
PostPosted: 13 May 2018, 17:40 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 10/16/10
Posts: 426
Post Likes: +94
Location: SLC
Aircraft: A220/737/757/DC9/B55
Username Protected wrote:
Rick to have a link to your T Saratoga?


Hi Jackson, PM sent!


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024

.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.lucysaviation-85x50.png.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.Foreflight_85x50_color.png.
.aeroled-85x50-2022-12-06.jpg.
.ei-85x150.jpg.
.tat-85x100.png.
.avionwealth-85x50.png.
.daytona.jpg.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.Marsh.jpg.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.SCA.jpg.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.camguard.jpg.
.concorde.jpg.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.avfab-85x50-2018-12-04.png.
.AAI.jpg.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.Latitude.jpg.
.Wingman 85x50.png.
.Genesys_85x50.jpg.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.tempest.jpg.
.kingairacademy-85x100.png.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.Rocky-Mountain-Turbine-85x100.jpg.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.aircraftassociates-85x50.png.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.dbm.jpg.
.chairmanaviation-85x50.jpg.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.midwest2.jpg.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.cav-85x50.jpg.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.aircraftferry-85x50.jpg.
.pure-medical-85x150.png.
.one-mile-up-85x100.png.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.wat-85x50.jpg.