banner
banner

28 Mar 2024, 16:43 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Concorde Battery (banner)



Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Rag and Tube (Wood spar Citabria)
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2018, 08:03 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 08/31/17
Posts: 1589
Post Likes: +623
Aircraft: C180
Friends I would really appreciate a recommendation for a prebuy on a Citabria near Minneapolis MN.

I've always taken my mechanic with me but that's not super convenient for work related reasons right now.

I need someone who's been around the block with old wood spar fabric covered airplanes and is going to be able to communicate via email detailed photos and borescope images.

The flying club is expanding and we need to buy a solid example of the model hence the need for a good pre buy to protect all the members investments.

I'm not going to buy it sight unseen but I'm trying to limit the number of trips I have to make to get the deal done. I'd like the next time I go to be for the trip home in it.

Send me a DM if you don't want to reply here. I'd also accept suggestions of people who might know someone that I could ask for a recommendation.

Appreciate the help! :pray:
Jake


Top

 Post subject: Re: Rag and Tube (Wood spar Citabria)
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2018, 08:17 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 09/10/13
Posts: 2278
Post Likes: +1667
Location: Lexington, KY
Aircraft: B95A Z526F SU26
I've rebuilt a wood spar Super Decathlon from the ground up. It doesn't make me an expert, but I know a couple things about the Bellanca planes. IMO its a sleeper type that gets passed over too often.

Feel free to send me any pictures/questions that you see on the prebuy.

dsmorgan05@gmail

_________________
Steven Morgan
^middle name


Top

 Post subject: Re: Rag and Tube (Wood spar Citabria)
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2018, 08:41 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 08/31/17
Posts: 1589
Post Likes: +623
Aircraft: C180
Username Protected wrote:
I've rebuilt a wood spar Super Decathlon from the ground up. It doesn't make me an expert, but I know a couple things about the Bellanca planes. IMO its a sleeper type that gets passed over too often.

Feel free to send me any pictures/questions that you see on the prebuy.

dsmorgan05@gmail



Thanks Don I appreciate it.
I think it will be a good fit for our club.
Will keep everyone updated.
Jake


Top

 Post subject: Re: Rag and Tube (Wood spar Citabria)
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2018, 09:08 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 05/17/11
Posts: 636
Post Likes: +259
Location: Kokomo, IN KOKK
Aircraft: Aerostar, PAY4, T-6
The spars need to be inspected per the AD, and that is not a 10 min job. To do it right, takes some time, mirrors, borescope and and experienced eye that knows what a compression crack looks like. Additional inspection rings/plates usually were needed to comply with the AD to allow complete looks at the spars.. Look for someone who has done this inspection before and does it correctly. Lots of Dec's were converted to metal spars. Last I checked, they ran about $30K (complete wings), probably more now.

Good luck with your purchase..

_________________
Best,
Nathan "Dirt" Davis
Kokomo, IN KOKK


Top

 Post subject: Re: Rag and Tube (Wood spar Citabria)
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2018, 09:11 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 11/03/08
Posts: 14527
Post Likes: +22857
Location: Peachtree City GA / Stoke-On-Trent UK
Aircraft: A33
Nathan is right - when i did the inspection on our champ it took me 3 days, but 2 of those was messing around cutting the holes and adding the covers, and waiting on stuff to dry. But if I had to do the inspection with the covers already there, I still think I'd spend the better part of a day on it. It's too important to rush it.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Rag and Tube (Wood spar Citabria)
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2018, 09:21 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 09/10/13
Posts: 2278
Post Likes: +1667
Location: Lexington, KY
Aircraft: B95A Z526F SU26
On the wood spar inspection AD: If you show up to look at a current and flying wood spar plane without the additional inspection holes added and ready for immediate spar access, you should be on high alert with hairs standing up.

_________________
Steven Morgan
^middle name


Top

 Post subject: Re: Rag and Tube (Wood spar Citabria)
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2018, 10:35 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 08/31/17
Posts: 1589
Post Likes: +623
Aircraft: C180
Username Protected wrote:
On the wood spar inspection AD: If you show up to look at a current and flying wood spar plane without the additional inspection holes added and ready for immediate spar access, you should be on high alert with hairs standing up.



This is all good info thanks a ton guys.

This one is a citabria FYI and has the ad complied with and a TON of inspection covers already in place. Seems like a ton to me anyway. I just need to find a guy that’s done one of these before that is rather close to Minneapolis.
I don’t want to cut any corners.
Jake


Top

 Post subject: Re: Rag and Tube (Wood spar Citabria)
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2018, 10:54 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 02/09/09
Posts: 5549
Post Likes: +2503
Location: Owosso, MI (KRNP)
Aircraft: 1969 Bonanza V35A
We (my father and I) have done two ground up restorations on Citabria's, and one additional wing.

On the last one, we installed inspection panels on the bottom on each bay of the wing. It made it much easier to get in and inspect the wing. We also had the STC's panel for the top of the wing over the strut attachment.

Don's right, if you don't see at least some additional inspection panels installed, be very cautious...

Make sure to remove the wing root fairing and look at the but end of the spars. Cracks can hide under the plywood doublers and are only acessable at the root...

Cracks are common at the strut attach fitting's. It seem like we found one that was cracked between the doublers there also.


Don't disc
Jason

Aft Spar:
Attachment:
000_0146.JPG


Forward Spar, extreme example:
Attachment:
000_0145.JPG


Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Rag and Tube (Wood spar Citabria)
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2018, 11:31 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 08/31/17
Posts: 1589
Post Likes: +623
Aircraft: C180
Username Protected wrote:
We (my father and I) have done two ground up restorations on Citabria's, and one additional wing.

On the last one, we installed inspection panels on the bottom on each bay of the wing. It made it much easier to get in and inspect the wing. We also had the STC's panel for the top of the wing over the strut attachment.

Don's right, if you don't see at least some additional inspection panels installed, be very cautious...

Make sure to remove the wing root fairing and look at the but end of the spars. Cracks can hide under the plywood doublers and are only acessable at the root...

Cracks are common at the strut attach fitting's. It seem like we found one that was cracked between the doublers there also.


Don't disc
Jason

Aft Spar:
Attachment:
000_0146.JPG


Forward Spar, extreme example:
Attachment:
000_0145.JPG


Jason,
Thanks tons!

You want to go to minnesota next week/weekend in a Mirage or TBM?? Know anyone with your knowledge who does?

I'm down in Angola south of Coldwater MI. Pick you up on the way.

I'm less and less enthusiastic about finding someone near the airplane to hire to do this sight unseen. If anyone knows someone in Minnesota I'd love to hear about it.

Jake


Top

 Post subject: Re: Rag and Tube (Wood spar Citabria)
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2018, 11:40 
Offline



User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 06/28/09
Posts: 14129
Post Likes: +9074
Location: Walnut Creek, CA (KCCR)
Aircraft: 1962 Twin Bonanza
Considering the price difference in a wood spar vs metal isn't going to be all that much on the used market, and considering the cost to install new American Champion metal spars, why not just look for one with metal spars? :scratch:

_________________
http://calipilot.com
atp/cfii


Top

 Post subject: Re: Rag and Tube (Wood spar Citabria)
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2018, 12:45 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 08/31/17
Posts: 1589
Post Likes: +623
Aircraft: C180
Username Protected wrote:
Considering the price difference in a wood spar vs metal isn't going to be all that much on the used market, and considering the cost to install new American Champion metal spars, why not just look for one with metal spars? :scratch:



I thought that too but came around to a different assessment after shopping for 6 months.
This one appears to be worthy of the trouble and time of a prebuy inspection.

This is the 2nd airplane in 1 month I've gotten to this stage on.

:shrug:

I'm getting worn out shopping for airplanes. You'd think it would be easy with other peoples money but its harder. :ahhh:


Top

 Post subject: Re: Rag and Tube (Wood spar Citabria)
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2018, 20:10 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 02/09/09
Posts: 5549
Post Likes: +2503
Location: Owosso, MI (KRNP)
Aircraft: 1969 Bonanza V35A
Username Protected wrote:
Considering the price difference in a wood spar vs metal isn't going to be all that much on the used market, and considering the cost to install new American Champion metal spars, why not just look for one with metal spars? :scratch:


It's been a while since I looked at them (2006), but it seems like both the American Champion and Milman aluminum spars were also on the verge of a similar AD being issued for inspection.

Wood doesn't fatigue. Aluminum does. A wood spar that's hangared most of it's life is far superior to an aluminum spar.

Aluminum spars are fairly low cost to manufacturer in house. Seems like we had more in shipping the spars than the cost of the wood. There is some minor labor to duplicate them from the originals, but anyone with a little bit of patience and some basic wood working skills can do it. I think we made a total of 12 spars since 1998. Two Citabria's, one friends wing, and one repair when we loaned ours to a friend and he ground looped it.

Jason


Top

 Post subject: Re: Rag and Tube (Wood spar Citabria)
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2018, 20:52 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 04/16/10
Posts: 2031
Post Likes: +886
Location: Wisconsin
Aircraft: CJ4, AmphibBeaver
West Metro Aviation. Mike Wiskus. Buffalo MN. Northwest of Minneapolis. Very trustworthy. PM me for more info


Top

 Post subject: Re: Rag and Tube (Wood spar Citabria)
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2018, 21:13 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 12/01/12
Posts: 490
Post Likes: +338
Aircraft: AA1B,PA28,PA18,CE500
Dan White at HO aircraft. He’s at KANE. Does. Lot of rebuilds. Tube and fabric all the way up to trimotor museum rebuilds.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Rag and Tube (Wood spar Citabria)
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2018, 21:31 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 08/31/17
Posts: 1589
Post Likes: +623
Aircraft: C180
Username Protected wrote:
Dan White at HO aircraft. He’s at KANE. Does. Lot of rebuilds. Tube and fabric all the way up to trimotor museum rebuilds.



Thank you, turns out the other recommendation above is the mechanic so grateful to have another option for the 2nd set of eyes.

Jake


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024

.Marsh.jpg.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.Latitude.jpg.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.ei-85x150.jpg.
.avfab-85x50-2018-12-04.png.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.concorde.jpg.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.tat-85x100.png.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.Genesys_85x50.jpg.
.tempest.jpg.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.Wingman 85x50.png.
.pure-medical-85x150.png.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.SCA.jpg.
.Foreflight_85x50_color.png.
.lucysaviation-85x50.png.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.cav-85x50.jpg.
.one-mile-up-85x100.png.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.dbm.jpg.
.midwest2.jpg.
.kingairacademy-85x100.png.
.AAI.jpg.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.avionwealth-85x50.png.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.chairmanaviation-85x50.jpg.
.camguard.jpg.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.aeroled-85x50-2022-12-06.jpg.
.aircraftassociates-85x50.png.
.daytona.jpg.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.aircraftferry-85x50.jpg.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.Rocky-Mountain-Turbine-85x100.jpg.