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 Post subject: Re: Lust for Retirement Airplane($)
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2018, 17:42 
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Joined: 06/22/12
Posts: 115
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Location: Sky Haven of Aurora (KARR)
Aircraft: C-195; N2S-3
Chuck and Aubie sayeth the truth! I also own a 195 so I'm biased.

What I appreciate most about the Businessliner is that it's a good compromise that checks off a lot of boxes. It's not a great bush plane (get a 180 if that's what you're planning to do) nor is is a good seaplane. But it is a reasonable cruiser and, as said above, it draws a crowd at every stop. It performs pretty much like a 182/206 but gets preferred parking at the airshows.

I haven't found the mx for a radial to be a great deal more difficult. Oil drips and dribbles part of the mystique, though. Mine's pretty dry right now after some extra effort during last year's annual, but I know that it'll return to its natural state over time.

The 195 is all metal so I don't feel horrible about parking outside and camping nearby. The only threat to it is hail. Short term weather exposure actually may not be any tougher on steel/wood/fabric airplanes but I think I'd feel bad about leaving one outside during a downpour.

I've flown a Howard and really liked it (it has my favorite engine of all time - the 450 HP Pratt & Whitney), but they're double the price of a 195. Never flew a Gullwing Stinson but I have time in the 108-series and I'm told that the Gullwings are similarly docile. That is one huge airplane, though! Might not fit in a normal T-hangar. Cruise speeds with the 300HP Lycoming are in the 120 MPH range so I'm told. The Howard is a big plane, too.

I've flown a couple of versions of the Staggerwing and like them too. They're beautiful, rare and priced accordingly. Same for the Spartan Executives, but with exclamation marks!


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 Post subject: Re: Lust for Retirement Airplane($)
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2018, 17:53 
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Joined: 01/28/13
Posts: 6037
Post Likes: +3998
Location: Indiana
Aircraft: C195, D17S, M20TN
Username Protected wrote:
Chuck and Aubie sayeth the truth! I also own a 195 so I'm biased.

What I appreciate most about the Businessliner is that it's a good compromise that checks off a lot of boxes. It's not a great bush plane (get a 180 if that's what you're planning to do) nor is is a good seaplane. But it is a reasonable cruiser and, as said above, it draws a crowd at every stop. It performs pretty much like a 182/206 but gets preferred parking at the airshows.

I haven't found the mx for a radial to be a great deal more difficult. Oil drips and dribbles part of the mystique, though. Mine's pretty dry right now after some extra effort during last year's annual, but I know that it'll return to its natural state over time.

The 195 is all metal so I don't feel horrible about parking outside and camping nearby. The only threat to it is hail. Short term weather exposure actually may not be any tougher on steel/wood/fabric airplanes but I think I'd feel bad about leaving one outside during a downpour.

I've flown a Howard and really liked it (it has my favorite engine of all time - the 450 HP Pratt & Whitney), but they're double the price of a 195. Never flew a Gullwing Stinson but I have time in the 108-series and I'm told that the Gullwings are similarly docile. That is one huge airplane, though! Might not fit in a normal T-hangar. Cruise speeds with the 300HP Lycoming are in the 120 MPH range so I'm told. The Howard is a big plane, too.

I've flown a couple of versions of the Staggerwing and like them too. They're beautiful, rare and priced accordingly. Same for the Spartan Executives, but with exclamation marks!


Coyle and Aubie hit the big points on our round engines. I'm not Aubie who you asked the question of the 195 biting you on the ground. For me it is easier to land than my 185 which is on big tires 8.5x6. The difference is that once on the ground and the tails come down I can still see over the cowl of the 185, not the 195. Thus on the ground you first and foremost need a plane that has been checked in one of the three Cessna 195 jigs, in the country, for "straight"... If it is not rigged right it can get ugly quick. Mine is rigged perfectly and rolls straight. Now you just have to stay on top of her with limited forward visibility until chocked. It is and has been very good to me.

I think Doug R has some comments somewhere along the lines of mine. It is mostly the lack of forward visibility with no peripheral either that catches the unaware AND or a poorly rigged plane. Anyone good in tail draggers, four seaters, can learn to fly a 195 if I can...

_________________
Chuck
KEVV


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 Post subject: Re: Lust for Retirement Airplane($)
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2018, 23:33 
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Joined: 03/01/14
Posts: 2128
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Location: 0TX0 Granbury TX
Aircraft: T-210M Aeronca 7AC
In September the 195 club will come to my neck of the woods (KDGJ) and I’ll have opportunity to visit with that crowd but that will be after Oshkosh. I think my favorite place to hang out there is in the Vintage area. Who wouldn’t jones after a Spartan Exec?


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 Post subject: Re: Lust for Retirement Airplane($)
PostPosted: 21 Mar 2018, 00:39 
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Joined: 01/06/11
Posts: 2918
Post Likes: +1630
Location: Missouri
Aircraft: C-120 RV8
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Once the kids are out of the house, I'll build an RV with some sort of mogas compatible engine.
Or in keeping with the theme of the thread, a Glasair Sportsman.

I have said it before. There are are two sets of plans for our house. On my set it says 'plane building workshop' for a large area of unfinished space, on her set it says 'movie theater' :whistle:


I'm building an RV-8 for my retirement airplane. I got spoiled flying a V35 Bonanza and wanted something that went 170 kts but didn't require an act of congress to make legal each year. I chose a narrow deck O-360 which will run auto gas. Just came up out of the shop, working on the baffles. I recommend starting sooner rather than later. Life gets in the way!


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 Post subject: Re: Lust for Retirement Airplane($)
PostPosted: 21 Mar 2018, 01:54 
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Joined: 08/28/13
Posts: 300
Post Likes: +116
Location: KSEE
Aircraft: DGA-15P, C140A
Run of the mill Howard DGA at 27" and 1900rpm is a 145 knot true airplane burning 21-23 GPH. Tighter restorations can do a bit faster.

Useful load is through the wooden roof.

Built like a brick $hithouse.

E


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 Post subject: Re: Lust for Retirement Airplane($)
PostPosted: 21 Mar 2018, 09:40 
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Joined: 03/01/14
Posts: 2128
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Location: 0TX0 Granbury TX
Aircraft: T-210M Aeronca 7AC
You all know that any airplane of this nature would be some sort of restoration project. All of them require some form of continuous restoration. I’m really good with a chisel and duct tape!


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 Post subject: Re: Lust for Retirement Airplane($)
PostPosted: 21 Mar 2018, 10:47 
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Joined: 10/22/08
Posts: 4832
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Location: Sherman, Tx
Aircraft: 35-C33, A36
Username Protected wrote:
So, should one give into their passionate desires for a stately C-180 or those beautiful curves of the C-195? Pros, cons?

Since both are just "wants" vs "needs"... just throw logic to the wind and go with your heart.
Heck... just buy one of each! :dance: :bow: :stir:

Are you going to keep both the champ and 210 with adding this third airplane?

Do you have "mission" in mind for either?

BTW... do you remember you and your wife visiting with Mary and I and the OSH pirate party?

Leldon Locke
Sherman, Tx
L M Ranch airport


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 Post subject: Re: Lust for Retirement Airplane($)
PostPosted: 21 Mar 2018, 12:42 
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Joined: 03/01/14
Posts: 2128
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Location: 0TX0 Granbury TX
Aircraft: T-210M Aeronca 7AC
Username Protected wrote:
So, should one give into their passionate desires for a stately C-180 or those beautiful curves of the C-195? Pros, cons?

Since both are just "wants" vs "needs"... just throw logic to the wind and go with your heart.
Heck... just buy one of each! :dance: :bow: :stir:

Are you going to keep both the champ and 210 with adding this third airplane?

Do you have "mission" in mind for either?

BTW... do you remember you and your wife visiting with Mary and I and the OSH pirate party?

Leldon Locke
Sherman, Tx
L M Ranch airport


Yes I remember you folks and look forward to seeing you again at Roberts’s pig roast. You really can’t have too many airplanes especially when you have friends with bigger hangars. More than anything I’m just kinda itching for a new project. I really need to buckle down and finish my Thatcher CX4. I do have it sitting on its gear.

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 Post subject: Re: Lust for Retirement Airplane($)
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2018, 23:05 
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Joined: 06/24/12
Posts: 227
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Location: Green Bay, WI
Aircraft: Baron 55, Citabria
I am torn between a Staggering or an MU2.

Very different but kinda the same.


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 Post subject: Re: Lust for Retirement Airplane($)
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2018, 23:10 
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Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 19252
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
I am torn between a Staggering or an MU2.

Very different but kinda the same.

One could say the Staggerwing was the MU2 of its era, a fast traveling airplane ahead of its time.

The Staggerwing is, as far as I know, the only combination of:

Biplane
Antique
Radial Engine
Fabric
Tailwheel
Retractable

That scratches a lot of itches.

Still, I'd take a Spartan Executive over one...

Mike C.

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Email mikec (at) ciholas.com


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 Post subject: Re: Lust for Retirement Airplane($)
PostPosted: 10 Apr 2018, 08:51 
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Joined: 11/25/11
Posts: 9168
Post Likes: +17159
Location: KGNF, Grenada, MS
Aircraft: Baron, 180,195,J-3
Aubie is a close friend and Chuck one of the closest friends I have that I never met in person. :bugeye: They have told the truth, but they mollify the truth some with the best of intentions.

I literally made the "same" quest when I bought the 180 for my "retirement" airplane. Wayne Roberts, my hangar neighbor, had just bought a 195 with Aubie's assistance. Aubie had one and knew about everything there was to know about them. I'm the one that sent Chuck to him when Chuck wanted to buy one.

I would love to have a 195, but not as my only "traveling" airplane. Since I have the A*, that is not an issue right now, but it will be. I watched Wayne and Aubie work on their airplanes as a labor of love, spending countless hours keeping them in the air and all the time telling me they weren't anymore "trouble" than a 180. I saw the difference and bought the 180.

The 180 is almost never "down". If it is, it is a quick, easy, and "cheap" fix compared to a 195. Both Wayne's and Aubie's 195's are now being rebuilt from accidents. which occurred at the hands of two of the best pilots I have ever known: them. Wayne, now an A&P has a beautiful 195 in his hangar that belongs to a friend. Wayne was going to address a few minor issues and put in a new interior (from his wrecked 195). That was nine months ago and he simply cannot get it out of his hangar for newly occurring "issues".

So, my take as a casual observer, DO NOT BUY THE 195 AS YOUR ONLY AIRPLANE if you intend to actually use it.

I will now take shelter :hide: and wait for Aubie's scathing response hereon and humiliating phone call about how I wear panties or some **** like that.

Then, I'll go flying in the 180 because it is ready and willing to go. :thumbup:

John Grady

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Waste no time with fools. They have nothing to lose.


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 Post subject: Re: Lust for Retirement Airplane($)
PostPosted: 10 Apr 2018, 09:30 
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Joined: 01/07/13
Posts: 1195
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Company: Tupelo Aero, Inc
Location: Pontotoc , MS (22M)
Aircraft: 1959 Twin Beech 18
Username Protected wrote:
195 is almost 140 kts and is a great cruiser. Great useful load and very good parts and engine support.

Aubie, I have always heard that the 195 would bite you on the ground. Is that true?


Any airplane can bite you. The 195 requires proper handling on Takeoff and landing. Not Hard just requires the proper inputs.

Aubie
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I shop at Lane Bryant....Because that’s where they sell “Big Girl Panties” !


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 Post subject: Re: Lust for Retirement Airplane($)
PostPosted: 10 Apr 2018, 09:42 
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Joined: 01/07/13
Posts: 1195
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Company: Tupelo Aero, Inc
Location: Pontotoc , MS (22M)
Aircraft: 1959 Twin Beech 18
Username Protected wrote:
Aubie is a close friend and Chuck one of the closest friends I have that I never met in person. :bugeye: They have told the truth, but they mollify the truth some with the best of intentions.

I literally made the "same" quest when I bought the 180 for my "retirement" airplane. Wayne Roberts, my hangar neighbor, had just bought a 195 with Aubie's assistance. Aubie had one and knew about everything there was to know about them. I'm the one that sent Chuck to him when Chuck wanted to buy one.

I would love to have a 195, but not as my only "traveling" airplane. Since I have the A*, that is not an issue right now, but it will be. I watched Wayne and Aubie work on their airplanes as a labor of love, spending countless hours keeping them in the air and all the time telling me they weren't anymore "trouble" than a 180. I saw the difference and bought the 180.

John as a lawyer you know tof acc

The 180 is almost never "down". If it is, it is a quick, easy, and "cheap" fix compared to a 195. Both Wayne's and Aubie's 195's are now being rebuilt from accidents. which occurred at the hands of two of the best pilots I have ever known: them. Wayne, now an A&P has a beautiful 195 in his hangar that belongs to a friend. Wayne was going to address a few minor issues and put in a new interior (from his wrecked 195). That was nine months ago and he simply cannot get it out of his hangar for newly occurring "issues".

So, my take as a casual observer, DO NOT BUY THE 195 AS YOUR ONLY AIRPLANE if you intend to actually use it.

I will now take shelter :hide: and wait for Aubie's scathing response hereon and humiliating phone call about how I wear panties or some **** like that.

Then, I'll go flying in the 180 because it is ready and willing to go. :thumbup:

John Grady


The quote that JGG was struggling to recall was "JGG put on your Big Girl Panties". Johns characterization of the 195 is being confused with Wayne obsessive drive to "get it right". All existing 195's have lived thru the 1960's and 1970's. In this era it was an underappreciated airplane that was selling cheap and possessed great utility. The result of all that is all the "average" airplanes have skeletons. 180's were being produced during this same time period and have never been "cheap" or fallen out of favor. A 195 and 180 in same condition will have be about the same burden to operate. The 195 is still the sexier airplane! :woot:

How is that for scathing? JGG

_________________
I shop at Lane Bryant....Because that’s where they sell “Big Girl Panties” !


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 Post subject: Re: Lust for Retirement Airplane($)
PostPosted: 10 Apr 2018, 15:12 
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Joined: 08/10/13
Posts: 774
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Company: Woodrow Corp
Location: Springfield, OH (I54)
Aircraft: 1952 Bonanza C35
Cessna had three engines available in the 195; 275hp, 300hp and a 245, which I think they built as a 190. I had a 300hp variant and later one that had 330hp Bamboo Bomber engine with stretched cowls. The 300 had similar performance to a 182 and burned about 14GPH as I recall.
A buddy had a Gull Wing Stinson that was beautiful but slow, thirsty and huge. It was a bear to move on the ground, much more so than the 195.
Maintenance on the 195 wasn't bad and the fact that the engine swung out from the firewall made getting at things pretty easy. My mechanic still gripes about changing a flap motor in one though. The only thing I didn't like about the 195 was the 5-gallon oil tank that stretched across the cabin side of the firewall. It radiated a lot of heat, which was fine in winter but not so great in the summer. Overall, the 195 is a great airplane. Very roomy, comfortable and would haul a good load.


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 Post subject: Re: Lust for Retirement Airplane($)
PostPosted: 10 Apr 2018, 19:13 
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Joined: 11/25/11
Posts: 9168
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Location: KGNF, Grenada, MS
Aircraft: Baron, 180,195,J-3
I'll back up Aubie's comment about the speed of the 195. I took Wayne over to Pete Jone's in his 180 to pick up Larry's 195. The 195 eased away from me on the return trip figuring we were both at about low cruise power. The old gals will hustle when you want them to.

That being said, with smaller wheels, wheel pants and a couple of the Snyder speed mods, I think the 180 would gain the advantage.

I appreciate Aubie's Non-scathing response, but I still think the 180 is more reliable by a fair amount. I flew mine this afternoon; sweet.

John Grady

_________________
Waste no time with fools. They have nothing to lose.


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