banner
banner

28 Mar 2024, 19:07 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Concorde Battery (banner)



Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: MU2 Honeywell TPE-331-10 No Longer Manufactured... Options?
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2018, 09:50 
Offline



User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/12/10
Posts: 275
Post Likes: +57
Company: PLANELOGIX
Location: KRDU
Hi everyone,

I'm doing some MU2 research (specifically the -10 equipped Solitaire) and attempting to identify areas of concern regarding the airframe, engines, and general support for a fairly long-term ownership experience (5-10 years). This thread focuses on the current support status for the -10 engines.

While I understand Mitsubishi provides world class support for the aircraft, and have read some great testimonials to this end (David K., etc), one area that seems troubling is long-term support for the "Mitsubishi configuration" TPE-331-10s.

I emailed Honeywell directly to learn a little about support options for the -10 engines. When I asked if new -10 engines are available for the MU2, I was told:

Quote:
Hi Rob,

I spoke with one of our tech sales and he advised me that, at this time, we do not manufacture a Mitsubishi configuration -10 engines.
We do manufacture other configuration -10's, but they would not be compatible with an MU-2.

Thank you again for you interest.


Perhaps the fact that the MU-2 -10 is not longer manufactured is well known by the MU2 community, but I thought I would just share that as it was news to me.

When I asked about support, parts, etc... for the current generation of MU-2 configuration -10 engines I was deferred to Intercontinental Jet Services:

Quote:
Hi Rob,

Please contact Intercontinental Jet Services, and talk to Mark James.
ICJ is Mitsubishi's corporately-owned service center, and they're Honeywell authorized for engines.


While I have no problem reaching out to learn more about what ICJ has to offer, Honeywell's response was a bit concerning to me for a couple reasons...

Current MU2 -10 owners/operators, how do you plan to maintain your -10 engines for the next 10-20 years? How many overhaul cycles can one of these engines endure (or does it not matter)? Should the fact that Honeywell no longer seems to directly support the engine (and does not manufacture them) be troublesome? Has procuring parts ever been an issue?

Thanks,

Rob

_________________
PLANELOGIX: Always online and available. Aircraft record ecosystem https://www.planelogix.com


Top

 Post subject: Re: MU2 Honeywell TPE-331-10 No Longer Manufactured... Optio
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2018, 12:01 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/21/09
Posts: 693
Post Likes: +40
Location: KBJC
Aircraft: MU-2B-60
Hi Rob,
Support for the engines isn't something I really considered until I saw your post. At my current rate of flying (around 150hrs/yr) I have 18 years until an overhaul is due so it probably won't be an issue for me. My engines have over 11,500hrs on them and are running strong so I would expect MU2 owners with lower time airplanes will be able to fly for a long, long time before needing new engines.


Top

 Post subject: Re: MU2 Honeywell TPE-331-10 No Longer Manufactured... Optio
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2018, 12:18 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 6322
Post Likes: +5520
Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
Without disagreeing with you - there's a difference between "not manufacturing a MU-2 configured -10" and providing parts for it. I think one will find one can probably buy any gearbox and rotable part for this engine new from Honeywell, it's just that they don't assemble them as a full package anymore. Likewise, they haven't made -1's in decades, yet I can get all the rotables for them (as far as I know).

_________________
Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.


Top

 Post subject: Re: MU2 Honeywell TPE-331-10 No Longer Manufactured... Optio
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2018, 16:11 
Offline



User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/12/10
Posts: 275
Post Likes: +57
Company: PLANELOGIX
Location: KRDU
Thanks guys. Both of these points help assuage my concerns.

Adam, I'm glad you mentioned the point about there being a difference between "not manufacturing" vs. providing rotable parts. The thought crossed my mind, but I was somewhat discouraged by their response of differing to ICJ for parts availability information when I asked if Honeywell was still providing parts for these engines. My question to them was:
Quote:
What about support for the Mitsubishi MU2 -10 engines? Are parts available? [Is Honeywell support for these engines] being phased out?

I'd like to assume you are correct.

I'm planning to contact ICJ and I'll provide and update on this thread with what I find out.

_________________
PLANELOGIX: Always online and available. Aircraft record ecosystem https://www.planelogix.com


Top

 Post subject: Re: MU2 Honeywell TPE-331-10 No Longer Manufactured... Optio
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2018, 16:46 
Online


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 11/08/12
Posts: 6230
Post Likes: +3734
Location: San Carlos, CA - KHWD
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
The relevant question for an owner is not whether they manufacture new engines but whether you can get yours overhauled.

Which is not a problem.

There's also a market for engines to rent or buy as swaps if you need to do that instead of overhaul your own for some reason.

They aren't dead. But they're not being manufactured new anymore. If Mits ever re-starts the production line for MU-2s, Honeywell just might restart the production line for the -10 variant that is relevant as well. But that's all academic.

_________________
-Jon C.


Top

 Post subject: Re: MU2 Honeywell TPE-331-10 No Longer Manufactured... Optio
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2018, 17:12 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 6322
Post Likes: +5520
Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
Correct me if I'm wrong, or maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but I think they do make the -10's, just not the version that goes in the MU-2, right? I'm pretty sure the -10T is still made, but I could be wrong.

_________________
Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.


Top

 Post subject: Re: MU2 Honeywell TPE-331-10 No Longer Manufactured... Optio
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2018, 17:47 
Offline



User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/12/10
Posts: 275
Post Likes: +57
Company: PLANELOGIX
Location: KRDU
Adam,

Yes, I believe that is correct. Honeywell said they are still manufacturing the -10, just not the variant that the MU2 requires.

_________________
PLANELOGIX: Always online and available. Aircraft record ecosystem https://www.planelogix.com


Top

 Post subject: Re: MU2 Honeywell TPE-331-10 No Longer Manufactured... Optio
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2018, 17:53 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 6322
Post Likes: +5520
Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
Speaking of this, as far as I understand, nobody has done an STC for the turbine blades or the stators - you're only source is to go to Honeywell. Seems like it would be ripe for that. At least on paper looks like it could be a good business. With modern CNC machines, a turbine stage disc of excellent quality could be made at quite a competitive price. I can't recall what the prices are for the 3 stages, but seem to recall 1st stage is around $20K, 2nd around $14K and 3rd is about $7K.

_________________
Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.


Top

 Post subject: Re: MU2 Honeywell TPE-331-10 No Longer Manufactured... Optio
PostPosted: 15 Mar 2018, 09:23 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 19252
Post Likes: +23613
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
I'm pretty sure the -10T is still made, but I could be wrong.

The MU2 uses three -10 variants: -10 (Solitaire, Marquise), -10AV (J, K, L, M upgrades), and -10T (N, P upgrades).

Parts and service are no problem, it is just that Honeywell doesn't have new engine in those configurations in the order book. It is hard to imagine someone needing a new one outright.

I suspect if you go ask PWC to buy a new PT6A-21, they might not have that in the order book, either.

Mike C.

_________________
Email mikec (at) ciholas.com


Top

 Post subject: Re: MU2 Honeywell TPE-331-10 No Longer Manufactured... Optio
PostPosted: 15 Mar 2018, 09:28 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 19252
Post Likes: +23613
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
Current MU2 -10 owners/operators, how do you plan to maintain your -10 engines for the next 10-20 years?

Absolutely. Honeywell has been making improvements and changes, like the improved burner cans often evident on the Conquests (yielding 7000 TBO).

Quote:
How many overhaul cycles can one of these engines endure (or does it not matter)?

Effectively infinite. The key parts, turbine wheels, stators, combustor, are still being made new and put in new engines (like for the Predator).

Quote:
Should the fact that Honeywell no longer seems to directly support the engine (and does not manufacture them) be troublesome? Has procuring parts ever been an issue?

Honeywell supports the engines through the engine shops. I don't think it was different 15 years ago.

Mike C.

_________________
Email mikec (at) ciholas.com


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024

.ei-85x150.jpg.
.pure-medical-85x150.png.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.Wingman 85x50.png.
.avionwealth-85x50.png.
.lucysaviation-85x50.png.
.Foreflight_85x50_color.png.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.Marsh.jpg.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.SCA.jpg.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.tat-85x100.png.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.camguard.jpg.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.chairmanaviation-85x50.jpg.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.aircraftassociates-85x50.png.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.dbm.jpg.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.AAI.jpg.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.cav-85x50.jpg.
.kingairacademy-85x100.png.
.daytona.jpg.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.avfab-85x50-2018-12-04.png.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.aircraftferry-85x50.jpg.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.midwest2.jpg.
.Latitude.jpg.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.aeroled-85x50-2022-12-06.jpg.
.tempest.jpg.
.Genesys_85x50.jpg.
.concorde.jpg.
.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.Rocky-Mountain-Turbine-85x100.jpg.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.one-mile-up-85x100.png.