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28 Mar 2024, 09:18 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Know Your Customer
PostPosted: 16 Mar 2018, 07:40 
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Company: Plane Data, Inc.
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Username Protected wrote:
Alright, you all are starting to get me worried. I just sold a plane. No contract. Wired 60% of the cash, I launched the airplane and he wired the rest once enroute. No worries.

But two weeks later he hasn’t found time to send in the registration paperwork to Ok City.

Can I de-register it on my behalf?


Hopefully you kept the aircraft's previous registration (YOUR registration card) when you sold it. The hard card has a section on the back that owners SHOULD be sending into the FAA to effectively end the registration on the front.

Good luck

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 Post subject: Re: Know Your Customer
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2018, 16:49 
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Joined: 05/23/13
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Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
Username Protected wrote:
Alright, you all are starting to get me worried. I just sold a plane. No contract. Wired 60% of the cash, I launched the airplane and he wired the rest once enroute. No worries.

But two weeks later he hasn’t found time to send in the registration paperwork to Ok City.

Can I de-register it on my behalf?


Hopefully you kept the aircraft's previous registration (YOUR registration card) when you sold it. The hard card has a section on the back that owners SHOULD be sending into the FAA to effectively end the registration on the front.

Good luck


Mike is right, as long as you kept the hard copy of the registration and replaced it with form AC 8050, it should be as simple as sending in the registration to the FAA. (this is required since 9/11)

If you did not, then you need to contact him and have him return the registration to you immediately.
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 Post subject: Re: Know Your Customer
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2018, 17:34 
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Username Protected wrote:
Recieving a Federal wire is exactly how most laundering is done, the days of suitacses of cash are gone... I think.


First, I am not a lawyer. So take everything with a grain of salt and talk to a professional.

I am on on the board for a company which exports/imports gems.
You have this exactly backwards. AML is about three things:
1. Transparency in who you are interacting with
2. Verification who you are interacting with is not on a fed black ball list
3. Being able to prove 1&2.

All Fed Wires by definition have to pass the first two. The best possible thing is to move the money via FedWire. Second choice is via ACH. Third choice would be checks or credit cards. If you industry has been flagged by FinCEN and/or OFAC; then you want to avoid anonymous transactions as much as possible; and never deal with anonymous transactions on both sides of the business (buying and selling). Note: cash, paypal, bearer bonds, gems, barter... all considered anonymous. This is why jewelry stores always pay by ACH or Wire, but accept cash purchases. e.g. it is limited to a single side of the pay wall.

Good title companies and escrow companies actually help the process by handling the transparency, record keeping and fed black list queries.

Tim


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 Post subject: Re: Know Your Customer
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2018, 19:33 
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Username Protected wrote:
Recieving a Federal wire is exactly how most laundering is done, the days of suitacses of cash are gone... I think.


First, I am not a lawyer. So take everything with a grain of salt and talk to a professional.

I am on on the board for a company which exports/imports gems.
You have this exactly backwards. AML is about three things:
1. Transparency in who you are interacting with
2. Verification who you are interacting with is not on a fed black ball list
3. Being able to prove 1&2.

Tim

I don't follow your logic as to how Chip has it backwards.

He says "know your customer".

You say ""transparency in who you are dealing with" and "verification (that) who you are interacting with is not on a fed black list".

How is that different? The onus is on you to verify who you are interacting with (ie, know your customer).

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 Post subject: Re: Know Your Customer
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2018, 20:31 
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Username Protected wrote:
I don't follow your logic as to how Chip has it backwards.

He says "know your customer".

You say ""transparency in who you are dealing with" and "verification (that) who you are interacting with is not on a fed black list".

How is that different? The onus is on you to verify who you are interacting with (ie, know your customer).


FedWire portion was what I was referencing as being incorrect. FedWire is always traceable, and always includes some level of identification (bank account....).

Tim


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 Post subject: Re: Know Your Customer
PostPosted: 21 Mar 2018, 00:03 
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Username Protected wrote:
I don't follow your logic as to how Chip has it backwards.

He says "know your customer".

You say ""transparency in who you are dealing with" and "verification (that) who you are interacting with is not on a fed black list".

How is that different? The onus is on you to verify who you are interacting with (ie, know your customer).


FedWire portion was what I was referencing as being incorrect. FedWire is always traceable, and always includes some level of identification (bank account....).

Tim


I was answering the wrong assertion that the mere fact that money was transferred via FedWire meant it was not money laundering. The responsibility of the bank does not negate the responsibility of the individual.

It’s also important for an owner / seller to understand that the the funds may be seized by the government at any time, the fact that the wire went through does not mean the funds are legitimate.

To be blunt, the US Government picks on Aviation. If you are selling an aircraft, you better take very seriously the legal requirement to know who the buyer is and that they are using legitimate funds to purchase the aircraft. If you have any doubts or suspicions the FBI expects you to contact them.

For those who think it is unfair... it’s the Patriot Act. We’re fighting terrorism, it doesn’t have to be fair.
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 Post subject: Re: Know Your Customer
PostPosted: 21 Mar 2018, 00:12 
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Joined: 05/23/13
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Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
Username Protected wrote:
I don't follow your logic as to how Chip has it backwards.

He says "know your customer".

You say ""transparency in who you are dealing with" and "verification (that) who you are interacting with is not on a fed black list".

How is that different? The onus is on you to verify who you are interacting with (ie, know your customer).


FedWire portion was what I was referencing as being incorrect. FedWire is always traceable, and always includes some level of identification (bank account....).

Tim


The issue is that the US bank has to call the Mexican bank to verify who is sending the money... I’m not sure how well that works.
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It’s a brave new world, one where most have forgotten the old ways.


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 Post subject: Re: Know Your Customer
PostPosted: 21 Mar 2018, 10:10 
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Username Protected wrote:
The issue is that the US bank has to call the Mexican bank to verify who is sending the money... I’m not sure how well that works.


Chip,

The chance of a FedWIRE crossing the boundary into Mexico or Canada is incredibly slim. Very few banks can actually do this. Cross country boundaries is normally done via SWIFT. Now, SWIFT does not have such requirements. Therefore, if you are doing a SWIFT transaction, more responsibility falls on you.

I do agree, you are legally responsible. However, using FedWIRE and a well established escrow service that does basic identity verification goes a long way to helping the casual buyer/seller from making a mistake.

Tim


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 Post subject: Re: Know Your Customer
PostPosted: 21 Mar 2018, 19:58 
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Joined: 05/23/13
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Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
Username Protected wrote:
The issue is that the US bank has to call the Mexican bank to verify who is sending the money... I’m not sure how well that works.


Chip,

The chance of a FedWIRE crossing the boundary into Mexico or Canada is incredibly slim. Very few banks can actually do this. Cross country boundaries is normally done via SWIFT. Now, SWIFT does not have such requirements. Therefore, if you are doing a SWIFT transaction, more responsibility falls on you.

I do agree, you are legally responsible. However, using FedWIRE and a well established escrow service that does basic identity verification goes a long way to helping the casual buyer/seller from making a mistake.

Tim


Tim,

If you read above I definitely advocate using a title company because it is a level of protection, so I'll admit that I am not sure what type of conveyance is used. All of the deals I have closed have been through a title company. I will add that these wires don't necessarily come directly from Mexico, they also run them through Europe.

Where and how the money comes is primarily the title company / bank's concern.

The bank has to know who is sending the money to accept it, and the seller of the airplane has to know the buyer to complete the transaction.
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