BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Mar 2018, 18:55

Username Protected wrote:

Coming from the guy flying a SETP

You get it, even if you don't realize. You fly a SETP that costs as much as an old jet. Heck you can get some serious jet relics for less than a PC12. Owner pilots like something about the TP's, they continue to outsell the mini-jets. Jets are great if you have a jet mission. They are not very good for the average owner pilot that flies an average of 200 nm, usually by themselves or a couple of people, into all kinds of runways, often short. The SETP's continue to outsell the mini-jets... Maybe the market is just crazy

All SETP's are not the same. All jets are not the same. All twins are not the same.... etc. etc. Don't lump them together. All you need to do is look at FA to see what's really flying. Each airplane has it's own market.

A plane either has a lav or it does not. 7 hour airplanes with no lav are not going to sell. Most folks aren't going to spend $3MM+ and not have a lav.

Don't even throw old, 2 pilot jets into the mix. It's a completely different animal. It doesn't matter if they're free.... they're not worth running for most people.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Mar 2018, 20:49

Username Protected wrote:

A plane either has a lav or it does not. 7 hour airplanes with no lav are not going to sell. Most folks aren't going to spend $3MM+ and not have a lav.

Don't even throw old, 2 pilot jets into the mix. It's a completely different animal. It doesn't matter if they're free.... they're not worth running for most people.

True on the old jets, but not sure people aren't buying 7 hours planes without Lavs. GAMA seems to show different. The TBM and the M600 both have 1500+ nm ranges and can stay in the air for 7+ hours. Seem to be selling as well or better than any other primarily owner flown turbines.

In fact the 7 hour SETP's without a lav combined sold more than the 7 hour SETP with a lav. I think we will see similar in 2018. I am using the heck out of the range in my M600 and loving it. Even if I have to use a travel John every now and then

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Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Mar 2018, 21:48

The 2017 TBM 910 and 930 had a “sorta” lav option. I wonder how many of the 57 planes were equipped with it.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Mar 2018, 22:15

Username Protected wrote:

The 2017 TBM 910 and 930 had a “sorta” lav option. I wonder how many of the 57 planes were equipped with it.

A friend of mine is considering a used TBM 910 and his wife has indicated that a lav is kind of a must have. He's thinking he could just drop in a self contained marine potty to meet that requirement.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Mar 2018, 23:24

You say it has a lot of competition but everyone of these new SETP sells.

Most buyers of SETP dont want these mini jets. Its all about versatility.

You know all of this as you fly a PC12.

Username Protected wrote:

You can get a real nice, low hour Phenom 100 with G1000 for $1.5MM and it has a lav. Sure you gotta land for gas but you just saved almost $2MM.

Hell, $3.25MM gets you a really nice PC12NG that probably will never lose a penny in value.

I love the Epic. I think it's a gorgeous bird but it's got a lot of competition.

Yes Tony, it's a gamble.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Mar 2018, 23:49

Username Protected wrote:

He's thinking he could just drop in a self contained marine potty to meet that requirement.

I must say, my inner engineer really enjoys watching that robotic TBM cabinet turn into a lav wall at the push of a button. My finance side, on the other hand, would probably take one look at the asking price and get the $49 potty from Bass Pro Shop and a blanket.

He could definitely do the marine potty to meet my requirements and his, but I would suggest he ask his wife rather than think. In my experience, men have a horrible track record thinking they know what a wife requires.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 11 Mar 2018, 06:31

Username Protected wrote:

A plane either has a lav or it does not. 7 hour airplanes with no lav are not going to sell. Most folks aren't going to spend $3MM+ and not have a lav.

Don't even throw old, 2 pilot jets into the mix. It's a completely different animal. It doesn't matter if they're free.... they're not worth running for most people.

True on the old jets, but not sure people aren't buying 7 hours planes without Lavs. GAMA seems to show different. The TBM and the M600 both have 1500+ nm ranges and can stay in the air for 7+ hours. Seem to be selling as well or better than any other primarily owner flown turbines.

In fact the 7 hour SETP's without a lav combined sold more than the 7 hour SETP with a lav. I think we will see similar in 2018. I am using the heck out of the range in my M600 and loving it. Even if I have to use a travel John every now and then

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Username Protected · **Posted:** 11 Mar 2018, 08:17

Username Protected wrote:

A plane either has a lav or it does not. 7 hour airplanes with no lav are not going to sell. Most folks aren't going to spend $3MM+ and not have a lav.

Don't even throw old, 2 pilot jets into the mix. It's a completely different animal. It doesn't matter if they're free.... they're not worth running for most people.

True on the old jets, but not sure people aren't buying 7 hours planes without Lavs. GAMA seems to show different. The TBM and the M600 both have 1500+ nm ranges and can stay in the air for 7+ hours. Seem to be selling as well or better than any other primarily owner flown turbines.

In fact the 7 hour SETP's without a lav combined sold more than the 7 hour SETP with a lav. I think we will see similar in 2018. I am using the heck out of the range in my M600 and loving it. Even if I have to use a travel John every now and then

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Username Protected · **Posted:** 11 Mar 2018, 13:28

Username Protected wrote:

The 2017 TBM 910 and 930 had a “sorta” lav option. I wonder how many of the 57 planes were equipped with it.

There was an STC for a lav in the left middle seat for the 700, but reportedly the only airplane ever equipped with it was Kurt Russel's.

It was said that Goldie Hawn refused to ride in the airplane until it had a lav, but I haven't seen that verified anywhere.

I did see an ad for that airplane after he got a jet, and it did indeed have a potty. Not sure about any others.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 11 Mar 2018, 13:35

Username Protected wrote:

I wonder what price point the Denali will come in at?

About $2million more than the Epic. Thats a lot of money for 2 or 3 more seats if you dont need them. Plus this plane is easily 30-40 knots faster than the Denali.
Not to mention the lighter weight will mean a much higher climb rate, which will give it more range and lower fuel burn.
Sure it has competition, but it stands up well to everything in its class.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 11 Mar 2018, 14:38

Not an STC, it was just put in.
Because the TBM 700A is under the 62 kts stall speed the seat are not FAR 23 approved like the newer models so they can be modified.

Username Protected wrote:

The 2017 TBM 910 and 930 had a “sorta” lav option. I wonder how many of the 57 planes were equipped with it.

There was an STC for a lav in the left middle seat for the 700, but reportedly the only airplane ever equipped with it was Kurt Russel's.

It was said that Goldie Hawn refused to ride in the airplane until it had a lav, but I haven't seen that verified anywhere.

I did see an ad for that airplane after he got a jet, and it did indeed have a potty. Not sure about any others.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 11 Mar 2018, 15:00

Username Protected wrote:

True on the old jets, but not sure people aren't buying 7 hours planes without Lavs. GAMA seems to show different. The TBM and the M600 both have 1500+ nm ranges and can stay in the air for 7+ hours. Seem to be selling as well or better than any other primarily owner flown turbines.

In fact the 7 hour SETP's without a lav combined sold more than the 7 hour SETP with a lav. I think we will see similar in 2018. I am using the heck out of the range in my M600 and loving it. Even if I have to use a travel John every now and then

Who flies a TBM or M600 for 7 hours?? I suppose you could but I'd rather land and stretch my legs.

I do have a potty for my wife which she has never used.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 11 Mar 2018, 15:03

Username Protected wrote:

The 2017 TBM 910 and 930 had a “sorta” lav option. I wonder how many of the 57 planes were equipped with it.

There was an STC for a lav in the left middle seat for the 700, but reportedly the only airplane ever equipped with it was Kurt Russel's.

It was said that Goldie Hawn refused to ride in the airplane until it had a lav, but I haven't seen that verified anywhere.

I did see an ad for that airplane after he got a jet, and it did indeed have a potty. Not sure about any others.