BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Feb 2018, 10:50

Don't understand why Cessna just didn't beef up the inner structure a bit and made the TTx pressurized and added a chute. It would have been the only 4-place certified pressurized tourer. Couldn't have cost that much to do. Instead they went head on with Cirrus in an almost identical airframe - and lost.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Feb 2018, 10:54

This thread is depressing. :sad:

I'm going outside and plant potatoes.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Feb 2018, 10:54

I'm sad to see the competition die off, but the silver lining is that I'm glad to see Cirrus sell so many new airplanes and glad that people fly those airplanes.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Feb 2018, 11:46

The young prematurely rich guys buying Cirri are really impressed by the parachute. Once they get a license, they will shove off into weather that many of us would not chance in a well equipped pressurized twin.

Cirrus has done a good job marketing their product but the early models suffer from seriously low useful load. An example - a friend volunteered to haul me and another pilot in an SR22T from Houston to Fort Worth to pick up an airplane. The straight line distance is 211 nm. The owner was a relatively light woman at 150 lbs. I am 275 and the other pilot was 200 lbs. We had to stop in Waco for fuel. In a A36 we could have departed with full fuel. How is Cirrus is getting away with that stuff? It's the parachute. Cessna should have added it to the TTX and stayed out of the utility category.

Just my tuppence worth on the subject.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Feb 2018, 12:05

Username Protected wrote:

Cirrus has done a good job marketing their product but the early models suffer from seriously low useful load. An example - a friend volunteered to haul me and another pilot in an SR22T from Houston to Fort Worth to pick up an airplane. The straight line distance is 211 nm. The owner was a relatively light woman at 150 lbs. I am 275 and the other pilot was 200 lbs. We had to stop in Waco for fuel. In a A36 we could have departed with full fuel. How is Cirrus is getting away with that stuff? It's the parachute. Cessna should have added it to the TTX and stayed out of the utility category.

Just my tuppence worth on the subject.

Surely this cant be correct and there is a disconnect somewhere? Running the numbers in Fltplan shows that you can make this trip nonstop with that load no problem. I mean cmon 211 miles?!

Also, I'm pretty sure that the TTx with a parachute would have taken a lot of sales from Cirrus. If I was in that market I would buy a Cirrus over the TTx just for the parachute alone.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Feb 2018, 12:14

Username Protected wrote:

I think it's interesting that the Bonanza is still being produced since only 13 (just over half as many as the TTx) were sold in 2017 which is almost half of what they have been selling the last few years. Perhaps that announcement is coming.

It's certainly coming eventually.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Feb 2018, 13:08

Username Protected wrote:

Don't understand why Cessna just didn't beef up the inner structure a bit and made the TTx pressurized and added a chute. It would have been the only 4-place certified pressurized tourer.

I don't think there would have been much useful load left....it was already down to 450lbs with full fuel.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Feb 2018, 13:14

Username Protected wrote:

He was told at delivery that the TTx, G36 and B36 were all on the list for production end soon. Guess this is just the beginning.

What? They are going to stop production of the B36? Say it isn't so.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Feb 2018, 13:26

Username Protected wrote:

I don't think there would have been much useful load left....it was already down to 450lbs with full fuel.

UL was abysmal, but they could have dropped the utility category and gained some.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Feb 2018, 16:14

GAMA Shipment Data for 2017

Cirrus SR20; 46
Cirrus SR22; 135
Cirrus SR22T; 174
Total Cirrus Piston; 355

Cessna 172; 129
Cessna 182; 46
Cessna 206; 40
Cessna TTx; 23
Total Cessna Piston; 238

Bonanza G36; 13
Baron G58; 23
Total Beech Piston; 36

Total Textron Piston; 274

Cirrus has 355 units spread out over 3 models; 3 very similar models. And the only difference between the SR22 and SR22T is the "T".
Textron has 274 units spread out over 6 different models.....

Bonanza sales down every year since 2014 from 40 units to 13.
Baron sales down from 40 units in 2014, but up every year since low of 18 units in 2015

Does not take the prescience of the Amazing Kreskin to see & be concerned about the trends. Also, for 2017, sales of pistons worldwide were up 6.5%.

Interestingly, Pilatus SETP sales were down in 2017 to 86, from 100 in 2016.
King Air units also down in 2017 to 86, from 106 in 2016. Turboprop shipments down 3.3%

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Feb 2018, 16:17

Username Protected wrote:

Does not take the prescience of the Amazing Kreskin to see & be concerned about the trends.

To save some of you the time....

Attachment:

Kreskin.JPG

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Feb 2018, 16:33

Username Protected wrote:

Bonanza G36; 13
Baron G58; 23
Total Beech Piston; 36

What do you suppose break-even volume is for these models? I'm guessing it's at least double.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Feb 2018, 19:37

Username Protected wrote:

Bonanza G36; 13
Baron G58; 23
Total Beech Piston; 36

What do you suppose break-even volume is for these models? I'm guessing it's at least double.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Feb 2018, 22:49

Username Protected wrote:

that all hardware "design flaws" have been worked out... (although I'm still not sure about this as it relates to big bore 6 cylinder continentals...).

Get the design right and it will be right forever, but every copy you manufacture is another chance to screw up the execution.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 Feb 2018, 08:55

Columbia is the Betamax of light aircraft.

TTx is out of production