23 Apr 2024, 04:55 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Cessna Ends TTX Production Posted: 04 Mar 2018, 09:36 |
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Joined: 01/30/09 Posts: 6088 Post Likes: +3381 Location: Oklahoma City, OK (KPWA)
Aircraft: planeless
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Username Protected wrote: I think Mark Huffstetler; current owner of Lancair, should buy the rights of the TTX for pennies and repatriate the design with the experimental Lancairs such as the Mako and Legacy.
Restore the name Lancair Columbia 350 and Columbia 400. Sell them as boutique, bespoke, hand built machines that are custom built to order. The Lancair name is associated with sexiness, speed and power and unfortunately the connotation of a little danger. The certified Lancair brand put a sport coat on the experimentals with the FAA's blessing that "hey, this thing isn't a scary homebuilt" anymore. That's what their competitive advantage could be over a Cirrus and that's what was lost with the renaming fiasco and purchase and subsequent marketing by Cirrus. Sounds like another great way to make a small fortune in aviation to me.
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Post subject: Re: Cessna Ends TTX Production Posted: 07 Mar 2018, 02:17 |
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Joined: 11/16/15 Posts: 823 Post Likes: +493 Location: Canton, Texas
Aircraft: BE55, B737
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Username Protected wrote: Building time is an old wives tale.
Learn to fly the plane you want to fly. Flying a TTX does not make flying a jet easier. Flying jets makes you better at flying jets. Keep telling yourself that. Jets are easy until they arn't. The difference between pilots who have spent some time down in the weather building hand and mind skills in lesser aircraft shows when they move to faster equipment. While they can learn in the faster equipment, the crash forum is littered with examples of the cost. The shame is the ones who don't know, often don't know that they don't know. Les
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Post subject: Re: Cessna Ends TTX Production Posted: 07 Mar 2018, 10:16 |
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Joined: 01/29/08 Posts: 26431 Post Likes: +13066 Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: That may be true, but people aren't soloing in a 172 then finishing their private in a mustang. You need something for hours 20-200. The TTX was a decent option. My statement OBVIOUSLY is assuming one already has a PPL, IFR and ME. Once you have these...... go buy the Mustang if that's the plane you want. Do the training and fly with a mentor. It's cheaper than buying step up airplanes and training in each one. You will be a better Mustang pilot and have the same number of hours in the end anyways.
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Post subject: Re: Cessna Ends TTX Production Posted: 07 Mar 2018, 10:17 |
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Joined: 01/29/08 Posts: 26431 Post Likes: +13066 Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: While they can learn in the faster equipment, the crash forum is littered with examples of the cost.
The shame is the ones who don't know, often don't know that they don't know.
Les The crash forums are littered with crashes of low time pilots crashing jets? This is news to me. Please post a link.
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Post subject: Re: Cessna Ends TTX Production Posted: 07 Mar 2018, 11:08 |
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Joined: 11/08/12 Posts: 12799 Post Likes: +5226 Location: Jackson, MS (KHKS)
Aircraft: 1961 Cessna 172
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Username Protected wrote: Les
The crash forums are littered with crashes of low time pilots crashing jets? This is news to me. Please post a link.[/quote] I'm gonna second this one. I can think of a lot of owner-pilot TP crashes in - let's say - the 21st century. Not sure about jets. Thurman Munson doesn't count.
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Post subject: Re: Cessna Ends TTX Production Posted: 07 Mar 2018, 11:12 |
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Joined: 08/16/15 Posts: 2899 Post Likes: +3608 Location: Ogden UT
Aircraft: Piper M600
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Username Protected wrote: Les
The crash forums are littered with crashes of low time pilots crashing jets? This is news to me. Please post a link.
I'm gonna second this one. I can think of a lot of owner-pilot TP crashes in - let's say - the 21st century. Not sure about jets. Thurman Munson doesn't count.[/quote]
Look at some of the Premier crashes.
_________________ Chuck Ivester Piper M600 Ogden UT
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Post subject: Re: Cessna Ends TTX Production Posted: 07 Mar 2018, 11:26 |
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Joined: 01/29/08 Posts: 26431 Post Likes: +13066 Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: I'm gonna second this one. I can think of a lot of owner-pilot TP crashes in - let's say - the 21st century. Not sure about jets. Thurman Munson doesn't count.
Look at some of the Premier crashes. I can think of a lot of pro-pilot jet and turboprop crashes too.
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Post subject: Re: Cessna Ends TTX Production Posted: 07 Mar 2018, 11:52 |
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Joined: 11/06/10 Posts: 11898 Post Likes: +2854 Company: Looking Location: Outside Boston, or some hotel somewhere
Aircraft: None
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Username Protected wrote: Let's say you want to go spend the day training with your CFI. You're gonna do 10 missed approaches. Does doing them in an old Aztec make you a better Mustang pilot or does doing them in a Mustang make you a better Mustang pilot? Only situation I know of that is trained more often in piston planes versus turbines. Slow flight and stalls. How often these come into play for crashes in the jet world, I do not know. This additional experience may improve a jet pilots skills. Not sure, but may. Tim
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Post subject: Re: Cessna Ends TTX Production Posted: 07 Mar 2018, 11:57 |
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Joined: 01/29/08 Posts: 26431 Post Likes: +13066 Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: Only situation I know of that is trained more often in piston planes versus turbines. Slow flight and stalls. How often these come into play for crashes in the jet world, I do not know. This additional experience may improve a jet pilots skills. Not sure, but may.
Tim Why is training in a twin you will never own better than training in the twin you do own? If your instructor is sitting next to you.... practice slow flight and stalls.
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Post subject: Re: Cessna Ends TTX Production Posted: 07 Mar 2018, 12:13 |
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Joined: 11/06/10 Posts: 11898 Post Likes: +2854 Company: Looking Location: Outside Boston, or some hotel somewhere
Aircraft: None
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Username Protected wrote: Only situation I know of that is trained more often in piston planes versus turbines. Slow flight and stalls. How often these come into play for crashes in the jet world, I do not know. This additional experience may improve a jet pilots skills. Not sure, but may.
Tim Why is training in a twin you will never own better than training in the twin you do own? If your instructor is sitting next to you.... practice slow flight and stalls.
Not saying it is better. Just saying it happens more often. e.g. when I did a refresher in the Aerostar or the Cirrus; we did slow flight in both. We would actually practice flying clover leaf patters with climbing and descending in slow flight. From everything I have read, in turbines you just do not practice it as much.
Tim
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Post subject: Re: Cessna Ends TTX Production Posted: 07 Mar 2018, 12:47 |
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Joined: 08/26/15 Posts: 9543 Post Likes: +8779 Company: airlines (*CRJ,A320) Location: Florida panhandle
Aircraft: Travel Air,T-6B,etc*
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Username Protected wrote: Let's say you want to go spend the day training with your CFI. You're gonna do 10 missed approaches. Does doing them in an old Aztec make you a better Mustang pilot or does doing them in a Mustang make you a better Mustang pilot? Only situation I know of that is trained more often in piston planes versus turbines. Slow flight and stalls. How often these come into play for crashes in the jet world, I do not know. This additional experience may improve a jet pilots skills. Not sure, but may. Probably just be in recurrent sim training. It's a fair point that slow flight and real stalls in a real airplane are the best slow flight and stall training. But other than that-
Nearly all the places where pilots flying fast airplanes get bit is in the terminal environment- on approaches and/or on missed approach, as Jason suggested. That or on takeoff and departure (similar skillset to missed approach). Unsatisfactory proficiency in slow flight and stalls may be a contributing factor in many of those accidents, but I would suggest that poor cockpit management—just not up to the challenge when crap hits the fan—is nearly always a central theme.
Some of the best medicine for low proficiency is practice. More experience in the airplane that you fly- training, operations, flight time, more is better.
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Post subject: Re: Cessna Ends TTX Production Posted: 07 Mar 2018, 13:26 |
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Joined: 01/29/08 Posts: 26431 Post Likes: +13066 Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: Some of the best medicine for low proficiency is practice. More experience in the airplane that you fly- training, operations, flight time, more is better. That's exactly what I'm saying,. If you know your end game is Mustang. Buy the Mustang and fly with a pilot and do your Simcom etc. It's better training and less expensive than building time in a plane you don't want and eventually ending up in the Mustang. Buying and selling airplanes and training to fly each airplane is expensive and time consuming.
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Post subject: Re: Cessna Ends TTX Production Posted: 07 Mar 2018, 14:33 |
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Joined: 11/16/15 Posts: 823 Post Likes: +493 Location: Canton, Texas
Aircraft: BE55, B737
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So you go get a PPL IFR and MEL. That's possible in 150 hours.
Now go buy that Mustang and learn the rest in it. Maybe 100 more hours?
TOTAL recipe for disaster.
There are tons of lessons you can learn in a slower aircraft including weather, aircraft systems, ATC, personal limitations. Just tons of practical experience. Some of those lessons are deadly in faster aircraft.
Almost every incident in the accident forum have to do with overflying your limits. At 250 hours you don't know your limits.
Having spent more than a couple of hours instructing and checking pilots in everything from 152s, to heavy turboprops and transport jets, I can tell you that 1000 hours in a turboprop is often better experience than 1000 hours in a jet and 1000 hours in a piston twin most often is better than both. I can teach an 11 year old how to make a catIII hud 737 approach in less than an hour however all those intangibles take years.
Les
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Post subject: Re: Cessna Ends TTX Production Posted: 07 Mar 2018, 14:37 |
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Joined: 01/29/08 Posts: 26431 Post Likes: +13066 Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: So you go get a PPL IFR and MEL. That's possible in 150 hours.
Now go buy that Mustang and learn the rest in it. Maybe 100 more hours?
TOTAL recipe for disaster.
I never said anything about 100 hours of dual. Maybe it's 200. It's still cheaper..... and better training.
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