banner
banner

28 Mar 2024, 05:11 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Concorde Battery (banner)



Reply to topic  [ 68 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Re: Cessna 421 value?
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2018, 22:31 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 6322
Post Likes: +5518
Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
Username Protected wrote:
500B with Merlyn TIO540 (320 HP) conversion. Awesome airplane.


Nice performer! Piston Commanders achilles heel was always top speed. They're great at everything else, but they're not speed demons.

_________________
Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna 421 value?
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2018, 23:50 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 05/31/13
Posts: 1227
Post Likes: +598
Company: Docking Drawer
Location: KCCR
Aircraft: C425
I don't know, mine would do 183 KTAS @ 12.5 @ 30 GPH. Not as fast an an aerostar or a baron on the same FF but pretty good for an airplane that hauls a huge load and is a great short field performer. Go here and scroll down to the last video on the page. https://n222le.weebly.com/videos.html

_________________
ATP, CFI-I, MEI
http://www.dockingdrawer.com


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna 421 value?
PostPosted: 23 Jan 2018, 01:28 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 6322
Post Likes: +5518
Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
Username Protected wrote:
I don't know, mine would do 183 KTAS @ 12.5 @ 30 GPH. Not as fast an an aerostar or a baron on the same FF but pretty good for an airplane that hauls a huge load and is a great short field performer. Go here and scroll down to the last video on the page. https://n222le.weebly.com/videos.html


That's impressive speed for a 500! :thumbup:

_________________
Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna 421 value?
PostPosted: 23 Jan 2018, 01:31 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 19252
Post Likes: +23612
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
Mike, a SR22 does not carry 8 people and have a 2,315 UL. It also does not have a potty or Pressurized cabin and Radar. The extra engine is nice at night and IFR.

I agree with all that.

Which suggests that even on a short flight, you favor the more capable airplane. My point in bringing up the SR22 comparison was to expose that. Some may chose a jet even for short flights for that reason.

Mike C.

_________________
Email mikec (at) ciholas.com


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna 421 value?
PostPosted: 10 Dec 2018, 10:32 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 05/17/11
Posts: 1761
Post Likes: +1084
Location: KFRG
Aircraft: 421C
Username Protected wrote:
Old gal in new sexy dress, a lot of miles on her and unknown history, bargain price, what could go wrong.

The 421 is a hugely capable airplane if well maintained, that said there are many if you picked them up for free may still eat you alive in maintenance. Easy to loose sight of the fact that when you pick one up on the cheap, you are still maintaining a complex piece of equipment that if new would be a million dollar plus. You are still maintaining an old tired million dollar piece of equipment, the aero buck on these is more like $5-$10k than $1k.

Don't overlook 12 year exhaust OH requirement. If the cabin door has a snubber on it, I would bet the structure is cracked on the inside of the door next to the door seal area. Common on 3000 hour airframes, almost a given on 8000 hour unit. Spar cracks at main gear actuator attach common and expensive.


Old thread with new question.... Steve did you mean to say "cabin door doesn't have" a snubber"? I thought the snubbers reduce the stress on the attach points? I just purchased a 421c without the snubber but wanted to add one. This is why I ask.

Thanks


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna 421 value?
PostPosted: 02 Feb 2019, 00:05 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 01/11/16
Posts: 10
Post Likes: +6
Aircraft: Cessna 421C
I am in the market for a 421 and looking for suggestions on someone to conduct a prebuy inspection for me. Any recommendations? Thanks in advance.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna 421 value?
PostPosted: 02 Feb 2019, 00:27 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 08/20/09
Posts: 2394
Post Likes: +1856
Company: Jcrane, Inc.
Location: KVES Greenville, OH
Aircraft: C441, RV7A
Username Protected wrote:
I am in the market for a 421 and looking for suggestions on someone to conduct a prebuy inspection for me. Any recommendations? Thanks in advance.

We used TAS Aviation in Defiance, Ohio.

They use a multi-step process. Once you've decide on a particular example they send someone to the plane, do a very thorough point by point inspection on the ground and in-flight, and then present a detailed report. It's basically a one day mini pre-buy to eliminate the definite no-go's.

If all is well at that point it goes to KDFI for the full pre-buy (or pre-buy/annual).

I appreciated their approach. If there are glaring issues they'll likely be caught prior to the cost of the full pre-buy.

_________________
Jack Stull


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna 421 value?
PostPosted: 02 Feb 2019, 01:33 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/25/12
Posts: 3711
Post Likes: +3661
Location: KRHV San Jose, CA
Aircraft: A36, R44, C525
What is the door snubber? The air shock thing that’s let’s the stairs down slowly without the unknowing passenger let them drop?

_________________
Rocky Hill

Altitude is Everything.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna 421 value?
PostPosted: 02 Feb 2019, 03:21 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 02/05/15
Posts: 382
Post Likes: +104
Location: KSLC
Aircraft: Divorced: AC690A-10
Username Protected wrote:
$750/hour is way up there, that's twin turboprop territory. If you are right, I'm sure glad I didn't buy a 421!

Mike C.


Twin Cessna Flyer owner cost surveys run in that territory. IIRC that's everything except cost of capital - not a clean DOC for a marginal hour.

But lets assume for 5 years/750 hours say 45GPH block at $5 - $225* 5 = $170K
Hangar = 600 * 60 = $36K
Insurance = $15K
Oil changes @ $1000/50 hours = $15K
Training = $2k/yr = $10K
OH one engine with prop/exhaust/accessories/R&R = $75k
Top/mags one engine = $15k
Annual (inspection only) $20K

That gets me to $346k. 750hrs at $750/hr is $562k - you have $216 left at this point and (unless you're counting a top overhaul) ... nothing has broken and no systems have been maintained/upgraded. You can select from

Boots - $20K
Paint - $30K+
Interior - $30K
ADS-B - $5K+
Heated windshield - $20K
GFC600 to replace semi-supported FCS810 - $30K


There's some subjectivity in this for sure Overall point: even at $550/hr there's really not a way to meaningfully lower ownership cost of a 421 by getting a lower cost airframe. Half the price to buy is still 90% of the price to own.


Is that a typo on the oil change cost? A grand for an oil change?

Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna 421 value?
PostPosted: 02 Feb 2019, 08:40 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 11/08/12
Posts: 12797
Post Likes: +5224
Location: Jackson, MS (KHKS)
Aircraft: 1961 Cessna 172
$1000 per oil change is some rounding up, but 26 quarts of oil, two filters and several hours of shop time add up, particularly if you’re doing oil analysis and bundling in misc small stuff (exhaust inspection ad, etc)

Maybe $750 per change


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna 421 value?
PostPosted: 02 Feb 2019, 10:25 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 03/01/14
Posts: 2125
Post Likes: +1604
Location: 0TX0 Granbury TX
Aircraft: T-210M Aeronca 7AC
Props are for boats. You boys might as well stop pondering and just admit it, you’re gonna have to get a jet. Be sure it includes single point pressure refueling. That over the wing stuff is way too passé.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna 421 value?
PostPosted: 02 Feb 2019, 10:34 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 01/31/10
Posts: 13101
Post Likes: +6969
Username Protected wrote:
$1000 per oil change is some rounding up, but 26 quarts of oil, two filters and several hours of shop time add up, particularly if you’re doing oil analysis and bundling in misc small stuff (exhaust inspection ad, etc)

Maybe $750 per change


Thats what I paid every 35 hours.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna 421 value?
PostPosted: 02 Feb 2019, 11:13 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 05/17/11
Posts: 1761
Post Likes: +1084
Location: KFRG
Aircraft: 421C
Username Protected wrote:
What is the door snubber? The air shock thing that’s let’s the stairs down slowly without the unknowing passenger let them drop?


Yep... early 421 including pre-79 c's did not have it installed. I just added one to mine. That lower door is heavy, I'm surprised Cessna didn't include one from the start.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ACS100-10035-A ... 4121675587


Last edited on 02 Feb 2019, 12:09, edited 2 times in total.

Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna 421 value?
PostPosted: 02 Feb 2019, 11:42 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 6322
Post Likes: +5518
Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
The oil changes on a high power 1600-2000hr TBO piston engine will pay for the hot section inspection of a turbine. Just saying. :stir: ;)

_________________
Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.


Last edited on 02 Feb 2019, 12:04, edited 1 time in total.

Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna 421 value?
PostPosted: 02 Feb 2019, 11:55 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 19252
Post Likes: +23612
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
Is that a typo on the oil change cost? A grand for an oil change?

Nope, you have to do exhaust system inspection at that time, too, which includes a pressure test IIRC.

Mike C.

_________________
Email mikec (at) ciholas.com


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 68 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024

.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.avfab-85x50-2018-12-04.png.
.chairmanaviation-85x50.jpg.
.tat-85x100.png.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.Marsh.jpg.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.camguard.jpg.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.Genesys_85x50.jpg.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.kingairacademy-85x100.png.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.concorde.jpg.
.one-mile-up-85x100.png.
.aircraftassociates-85x50.png.
.ei-85x150.jpg.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.lucysaviation-85x50.png.
.Wingman 85x50.png.
.Latitude.jpg.
.Rocky-Mountain-Turbine-85x100.jpg.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.tempest.jpg.
.daytona.jpg.
.SCA.jpg.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.Foreflight_85x50_color.png.
.avionwealth-85x50.png.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.pure-medical-85x150.png.
.aircraftferry-85x50.jpg.
.cav-85x50.jpg.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.dbm.jpg.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.midwest2.jpg.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.AAI.jpg.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.aeroled-85x50-2022-12-06.jpg.