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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 18 Jan 2018, 11:32 
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Location: 0TX0 Granbury TX
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The Meyers 200D was produced for a single reason; to outrun the S model Bonanza. Al Meyers couldn’t build a good door although his airplane was fast. Notice the similarities in the Lancair.


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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 18 Jan 2018, 14:03 
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Joined: 08/26/15
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Company: airlines (*CRJ,A320)
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Aircraft: Travel Air,T-6B,etc*
I bet there are a few BeechTalkers reading this thread who are not quite sure what "hydroforming" means.

Here is a really neat, really great EAA video that demonstrates hydroforming. They make a fairly simple nose rib. These basic techniques scale up to, well, pretty much anything.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/xw5yEMsDxR8[/youtube]

Keep your fingers clear!


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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 18 Jan 2018, 15:13 
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That's pretty cool, thanks for sharing. I have that exact model of press at home.......hmmmm.....what can I make....... :scratch:

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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 18 Jan 2018, 15:35 
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About 10 years ago, I hired a local guy to help me with the sheet metal on the Bonanza as I don't have enough hours in the day. He had done sheet metal work for 30 some years in the military, and then did the work in the GA world on the side for retirement for a fair amount of years. He had seen most brands, but the wings on me V35A (really, V35B wings) were the first indepth Beech product he had worked on. I spent many hours with him reskinning and repairing the wings on my airplane. During that time, we discussed many things, including comparing the structure of different aircraft. He had also reskinned a PA32 wing for a customer, and a C-172 wing for someone else.

His comment was, there was no comparison in strength and quality. The Beech was far above the others in both. The few interesting things we found besides the significant structure in the Beech, was the consistency of the rivet holes between different parts. We used a few parts from the original wings, and even 1100 serial number later, the holes on a few miscellaneous parts lined right up.

There is no comparison between the 182 and the V35. Structurally, the Beech is physically a fair amount beefier structure. Comparing a PA28 and a BE23 is not even a fair comparison for the PA28.

Jason

Exactly my experience. I helped a friend re-skin the belly of a B55 that been wrecked in Missouri. I was actually astounded by the strength, structure and overall quality inside a baby baron. I have 10 years of King Air Mx experience and the Baron looked like a smaller version of that same quality.

I sold my Cessna 206 and bought a Dakota last year. Both are Beer Cans next to a Beech. No use crying about it :dancing: its the way it is. Different philosophies and cultures at each manufacture.

Our flight department had operated Gulfstreams for 25 years, four different models. We acquired a Telecom company that had an Excel which soon became ours. When we began to do inspections on the Excel "three-wheeler" we laughed and laughed about the chintzy parts that plane was put together with. The whole baggage compartment was comprised of "Aerospace Cardboard" and 8,000 screws to hold it up. Our gear door hinges were shot at 2500TT! Cessna used "hot-dog" splices everywhere and the whole thing screamed 172. Not to mention the bandaids and aerodynamic appendages hanging all over the plane to get it to fly well.

But the Excel rarely broke and was easy to fix if it did. We would roll it outside in the morning and it would go do a days work without complaint, day after day. We ended up liking it a lot because it made our lives easier.

Airplanes are full of compromises. :dance:


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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 18 Jan 2018, 16:35 
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It’s hard to compare Bonanzas and Cessnas with Gulfstream products. I’m just glad that I’ve had the opportunity to fly all three. However, I can only afford two out of three.


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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 18 Jan 2018, 17:04 
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I purchased a new C T206H in 2007. Within a couple of years many of the crappy cheap external plastic fairings and tips were cracked. Some were replaced under warranty and the new parts cracked too. I ended up replacing them all with fibreglass parts that wouldn't crack.

My 2009 Bonanza G36 purchased used in 2011 didn't have any external plastic AFAIK. Certainly nothing that cracked as long as I owned it.

The post asked about build quality. Maybe that's design quality. My new Cessna was designed to be built with cheap crackable plastic bits on the outside.

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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 18 Jan 2018, 17:08 
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...the whole thing screamed 172.

As in the most successful aircraft design of time?? Besting the next closest civilian design, the Piper Cherokee, by over 10,000 units?

I know what you are trying to say, it just strikes me funny that the hands-down winner(s) of all time are used as examples of how not to build an airplane. :scratch:


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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 18 Jan 2018, 17:30 
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Username Protected wrote:
I purchased a new C T206H in 2007. Within a couple of years many of the crappy cheap external plastic fairings and tips were cracked. Some were replaced under warranty and the new parts cracked too. I ended up replacing them all with fibreglass parts that wouldn't crack.


Amen to that brother.... What is it with manufactures thinking cheap-ass plastic is suitable for anything on an airplane??

I re-ferbed a little Beech Sierra we had in the flight school, new engine, avionics, paint, etc. and all the tips, etc. were that crappy warped, cracked plastic! At least when I re-do a plane where gobs were made, there are a couple manufacturers that make hi-quality fiberglass replacements so during the disassembly you just toss the original junk in the trash. Unfortunately, with the baby Beech, I was stuck with trying to fix the originals or going back to Beech to pay top dollar for the same junk plastic that went to crap in the first place. I chose to have the local composite gurus work their magic, ended up taking longer to get the plastic parts back than to paint the rest of the plane....


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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 18 Jan 2018, 17:43 
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It’s hard to compare Bonanzas and Cessnas with Gulfstream products. I’m just glad that I’ve had the opportunity to fly all three. However, I can only afford two out of three.


Had an experienced sheet metal guy tell me that next to a Falcon a Gulfstream was a throwaway airplane. You hear anything lik that?


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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 18 Jan 2018, 21:01 
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I heard a guy say he’d rather crash in a Waco than ride in a Stearman.


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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 18 Jan 2018, 21:17 
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I heard a guy say he’d rather crash in a Waco than ride in a Stearman.


Musta bin the same guy! :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 18 Jan 2018, 22:44 
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I’m fortunate to have flown Falcons also; they are great airplanes built like a Swiss watch.


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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 18 Jan 2018, 23:38 
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I’m fortunate to have flown Falcons also; they are great airplanes built like a Swiss watch.


In the 1890s, Swiss watches were the crappy import trying to pass themselves off as American watches. It's one of the reasons country of origin is required to be marked on products sold here. A lot of modern machine technology was invented in American watch companies, but I digress.

Vince


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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 19 Jan 2018, 23:43 
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Miscellaneous comment: building, maintaining and rebuilding are 3 different things. Let us not be confused.

Or as the say: horses for courses. Pick what you value the most.

Its great to have the used GA options. New options are much more limiting, for us the tax values do not figure....


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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 20 Jan 2018, 14:40 
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Aircraft: 1969 Bonanza V35A
Username Protected wrote:
I purchased a new C T206H in 2007. Within a couple of years many of the crappy cheap external plastic fairings and tips were cracked. Some were replaced under warranty and the new parts cracked too. I ended up replacing them all with fibreglass parts that wouldn't crack.


Does anyone else find it sad that you can spend half a million dollars on a new airplane, and in a short period of time, your having issues like this that could have been prevented by the manufacturer spending less than $1000 to make it right from the start?

An airplane really is thousands of pieces provided by the lowest cost vendor...

Jason


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