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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2018, 02:04 
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If nothing else this has made for some interesting reading... JGG hit the nail on the head a few pages back: "Why is it that human beings are so incredibly insecure?" Apparently especially Bo drivers. The apparent need to prove, at least themselves, their toys are better than yours is really rather sad.... Utility vs. normal category, zinc chromate, I can fly this far on a tank of gas, and so on...

It's more telling about the owner than the airplane.

So your view is that Beech owners here on BeechTalk should ignore the misstatements and errors posted by the Cessna pilots who have been welcomed here?

Then pretty soon reading these threads will be like reading AOPA magazine. And just as informative.
:bang:
Oh, thanks for the personal insult you tossed my way. Very classy.

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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2018, 02:12 
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What was the altitude for that trip? That's an impressive max range trip.
Kevin

15,000'.

If memory serves I went LOP during the climb.

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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2018, 08:22 
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David,

Have you tried the turbine Bird Dog? What a magic carpet ride!!

A T-Bird Dog on floats would have to be the ultimate toy. :D


I'd love to but that's way too expensive for me. There was one for sale here in the classified recently. What a machine.


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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2018, 08:24 
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I recently bought an old Cessna L19 Birddog. I'm really impressed with the build quality. I'm even more impressed with the handling qualities but that's not the topic here. I've only owned six airplanes so not an expert nor am I a mechanic but I have to say that the old Birddog is a stout airframe. You'd think, or at least I thought, that planes destined for combat would be certified to some crazy high G ratings. It's only certified in the utility category yet it's a very tough bird. Here's a photo of one that survived 37MM cannon fire.


I've always wanted a Birddog. Awesome airplane, classic war bird. love the visibility! Well done! :thumbup:


Thanks Adam,
I haven't had a chance to fly it very much yet. We're working through some minor stuff now. I hope to get some hours in it this weekend.
Dave

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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2018, 10:23 
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At the end of the day, quality is the definition of how well a manufacturer repeatedly produces an aircraft that meets its initial design.


Read that exact concept in a business book years ago. The prime example was actually McDonalds, everything is consistent/constant.
In a commercial setting, that is what quality really means. When you order a part, it comes and works exactly as advertised.

Tim


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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2018, 10:32 
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Joined: 11/03/08
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if you want to see the opposite of beech build quality, cut up a few piper cherokees for scrap. Skins under overlaps cut off at varying dimensions, blind rivets used here and there with no rhyme or reason from unit to unit, cheap sheet metal brackets instead of forgings. The cherokee line couldn't be any different from the comanche, which is a work of art akin to a bonanza. the cherokee's primary design goal was to be cheaper than the comanche to build - and they succeeded wildly.


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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2018, 12:24 
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These "insecure people" are what gave you the ability to own & fly (3) different planes, (not that you've ever thought of yourself as being "in competition" with anyone...or that any of your (3) planes were better than anyone else's planes....

I think what's REALLY sad is when Americans think that competition is a "Sad" thing, instead of the legitimate & awesome driving force that natural competition has always been, and will always be.

BTW, my plane is better than your (3). :lol:

Laugh it up with me Brother.... :bud:


Chris,

Sorry if I hurt your feelers... But as JGG pointed out, rather well I thought, this continual "My stuff is better than your stuff.." is silly, especially when it is as miss-informed as some of these posts have been. Like Beech is the only manufacturer to use primer on the inside of their planes. The old 50's something C180B was green from end to end on the inside, it was an option even way back then.

I grew up in airplanes, was flying before I drove a car, I never really gave the manufacturer much thought, airplanes were selected by the required mission, not the nameplate. You simply went from one to the other as the mission requirements changed.

I don't agree with the comment about "insecure people" giving me the ability to own and fly (3) different planes. I assume you are referring to the designers of these fine craft. I can't speak for them all but Dwane Wallace (Cessna) was anything but an insecure individual, courageous and competitive? You bet, insecure? No. Without Dwane's stewardship and unwavering confidence in himself, his company and the industry, we would not have Cessna aircraft, hardly the traits of an insecure man.

As a side note, it's not 3 airplanes, actually more like 15, I just thought it silly to list them all.. And no I don't think my planes are any better than yours, or anyone else's for that matter, different? Yes, better? No. Heck, if certification category really was a measure of quality, my old Citabria built out of wood planks, bed sheets and conduit (bamboo and toilet paper I like to call it) would be king of the hill because it is in "Aerobatic" category... Surely that beats silly 'ol "Utility" and day of the week and twice on Sunday. Doesn't that really make about as much sense as playing rock-paper-scissors?

I Loved 'Em Everyone by T.G. Sheppard sums up me and airplanes, probably why I have 3 hangers full of them, I haven't yet met a plane I didn't like. I came close to buying a 550-powered V-tail Bo a few years ago, the only reason I didn't was it was an older model and I was a little worried I may get carried away and pull the wings off... I know myself, I have never been one to color between the lines... Bought the T28 instead.

I remember talking to Bob Hoover some years ago when he was at Plamer and complimenting him on his extraordinary airmanship in the Shrike, his response? "A trained monkey could do what I do, the real pilot is Delmar, (we were in hanger standing next to the Gee Bee) that thing is a beast." The really good ones also seem to be the most humble. Aviation has been a gift in my life, I have seen places and met people that have made life truly worth living. I just wish some of the folks would lighten up a bit, life is about the journey, not who gets there first.

Jeff


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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2018, 12:40 
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If it was designed stronger it will be in the utility category like the Bonanza.

Maybe if the UL was backed off, it would/could be in the utility category.

Lots of Bonanzas here in the normal category. How do tip tanks come with a UL increase? No magic in additional build quality (or strength) - they provide paperwork to lower it to normal category.

Same with the 550 upgrade. You get zero UL increase, UNLESS you change to the normal category.

As was pointed out, this is not indicative of a quality of build issue.

Fly what you like; like what you fly.

And Chris - you seem to be getting a bit more combative lately.... Probably just means we need to have another BT fly-in before long.


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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2018, 13:07 
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Location: Anchorage, AK (PAMR)
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Years ago an aircraft salesman opined to me "A Piper is a 2 thousand hour plane, a Cessna is good for 3 thousand, and a Beech is an 8 thousand hour airplane".
My own take on it is that quality maintenance is more important than manufacturing differences. I'd be happy with a T210 if I didn't have to look at it.
Sticking with a lovely 52 y/o V35TC.


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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2018, 13:10 
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David,

Have you tried the turbine Bird Dog? What a magic carpet ride!!

A T-Bird Dog on floats would have to be the ultimate toy. :D


On our strip this past summer.


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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2018, 13:41 
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Username Protected wrote:
David,

Have you tried the turbine Bird Dog? What a magic carpet ride!!

A T-Bird Dog on floats would have to be the ultimate toy. :D


On our strip this past summer.


Now that is the definition of COOL!!!!! :thumbup:

Did you get to fly it??? I hope so, they are friggin AWESOME!! :dance:

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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2018, 13:54 
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Years ago an aircraft salesman opined to me "A Piper is a 2 thousand hour plane, a Cessna is good for 3 thousand, and a Beech is an 8 thousand hour airplane".


Local flying club has a 10,000 hr Archer and a 19,000 hr 172. Still going strong. :thumbup:

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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2018, 13:56 
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Username Protected wrote:
Years ago an aircraft salesman opined to me "A Piper is a 2 thousand hour plane, a Cessna is good for 3 thousand, and a Beech is an 8 thousand hour airplane".


Local flying club has a 10,000 hr Archer and a 19,000 hr 172. Still going strong. :thumbup:


Ye olde aircraft salesman long dead before any of the planes. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2018, 14:01 
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Jeff,
Nope....the owner had just purchased it from someone in Oregon and he was still in the test drive mode... working some things out.

Great performance. Very quiet.

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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2018, 14:10 
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Jeff,
Nope....the owner had just purchased it from someone in Oregon and he was still in the test drive mode... working some things out.

Great performance. Very quiet.


Did he buy it from Billy Dunbar? If so that was the plane I had the opportunity to fly. They had put a fuel totalizer in it, (FS450 if memory serves) and were having issues with calibration, I offered to tune it up for the chance to try it out. It would be too funny if it was the same plane!


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