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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 20 Jan 2018, 14:57 
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Joined: 06/02/10
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Does anyone else find it sad that you can spend half a million dollars on a new airplane, and in a short period of time, your having issues like this that could have been prevented by the manufacturer spending less than $1000 to make it right from the start?

An airplane really is thousands of pieces provided by the lowest cost vendor...

Jason


True, especially when you get a "OEM part" right out of the box and it still has the NAPA sticker on it.

The problem is that you have 10,000 parts that go into 1,000 sub-assemblies, that go into 100 assemblies that go into 1 aircraft...

Each one of those parts has a "aviation tax" of, say, 30% placed on it. Why? Insurance, traceability, liability, certification costs, or just because they feel like it. It, or the actual number doesn't really matter.

Then your 1,000 sub-assemblies, which already have the part tax baked into it, gets another 30% in the value added process for the same reasons.

And so on and so on...until the OEM adds their own aviation tax on the top when the plane gets delivered.

The "aviation tax" gets compounded at every step of the assembly process. THAT'S the reason 172s cost a half million dollars. Yes, liability & certification costs are a part of it, but you're not just paying that on the finished airframe, you're paying it on every trinket used in every step of the process.

Even if the OEM got shipments of bauxite in one end of the factory, and rolled out airplanes on the other end, you still have avionics, engines, and tons of nameless do-funnies that they don't make. And each one of your suppliers goes through the same thing, with the same compounded markup.

Best,
Rich


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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 20 Jan 2018, 17:03 
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Username Protected wrote:
An airplane really is thousands of pieces provided by the lowest cost vendor...


Well put! :thumbup:

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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2018, 17:00 
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Joined: 06/18/12
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Company: Revolutionary Realty
Location: Coeurdalene, ID (KCOE)
Aircraft: 1954 Bonanza E35
As a Pilot, you wear a Beechcraft, or you ride in a Cessna or Piper like a piece of freight.
( :stir: )

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Last edited on 21 Jan 2018, 17:33, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2018, 17:16 
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Joined: 12/09/07
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Username Protected wrote:
As a Pilot, you wear a Beechcraft, or you ride in a Cessna or Piper like a piece of freight.


Oh... I don’t know. I like em all, and any pilot can wear or ride any plane. You can get pretty one-with-the-plane flying the backcountry in a Cessna ... Or a Beechcraft.

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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2018, 17:20 
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Joined: 07/21/08
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Location: Decatur, TX (XA99)
Aircraft: 1979 Bonanza A36
Username Protected wrote:
As a Pilot, you wear a Beechcraft, or you ride in a Cessna or Piper like a piece of freight.

To some degree, I agree. But having now owned a Twin Cessna, it is not in the same class as a the 100 and 200 class. Very well built for the most part. I still get the occasional smoking rivet, but I had a few on my Bonanzas too, so I cant really say much there.
I will say that I have never flown a plane that felt like an extension of my body like the 2 S35's that I owned. They just feel right.

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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2018, 17:32 
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Aircraft: 1954 Bonanza E35
Quote:
Oh... I don’t know. I like em all, and any pilot can wear or ride any plane. You can get pretty one-with-the-plane flying the backcountry in a Cessna ... Or a Beechcraft.

I know, I know....
I went flying this morning, I (by myself) had my plane flying at 50MPH indicated (@ 3K AGL) with flaps & gear down, maintaining level flight....it was soft, but doable w no turns.....and then I landed, THE most perfect, sweet, landing, my gear didn't even know it was on the ground.... :coffee:

So I'm biased....me & the machine were one, so the Beechcraft comment came on.....I know there's Cessnas & Pipers & so on that are great, but I've flown a few of them & nothing so far has come close to the Bonanzas I've flown, in terms of my "being one" nirvana garbage.... :shrug:

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Last edited on 21 Jan 2018, 17:34, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2018, 17:32 
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Joined: 02/13/10
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Username Protected wrote:
I will say that I have never flown a plane that felt like an extension of my body like the 2 S35's that I owned. They just feel right.

For me, that is the RV-6.....no comparison with my other 8 planes.

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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2018, 17:52 
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Joined: 03/01/14
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Username Protected wrote:
I will say that I have never flown a plane that felt like an extension of my body like the 2 S35's that I owned. They just feel right.

For me, that is the RV-6.....no comparison with my other 8 planes.

You certainly wear an RV, the Bonanza will make the weaker pilot look like a hero do to the great design.

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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2018, 20:07 
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Aircraft: Cessna T206H
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I purchased a new C T206H in 2007. Within a couple of years many of the crappy cheap external plastic fairings and tips were cracked. Some were replaced under warranty and the new parts cracked too. I ended up replacing them all with fibreglass parts that wouldn't crack.


Well since the Bo doesn’t have wheel pants then that’s a pretty skewed comparison. What other plastic bits are you referring to? My main fairings look perfect but I do have a crack in the nose wheel pant that was caused by a tug.
My wing tips look great after 18 years.
I’m not saying Cessna is better than Beech in any way though, just a different experience.


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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2018, 21:31 
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What great sibling rivalry! :cheers:


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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2018, 16:51 
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Joined: 08/12/08
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Company: Retired
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Username Protected wrote:
What great sibling rivalry! :cheers:

Just like when Volkswagen bought Porsche!
:peace:

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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2018, 16:53 
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Hey; at least I got a dislike out of saying that Beech is better.....on a Beech forum. :coffee:

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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2018, 21:17 
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Hey; at least I got a dislike out of saying that Beech is better.....on a Beech forum. :coffee:

There's something that's just wrong with that. Besides, everyone knows Beech is better.

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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2018, 21:25 
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Company: Mountain Airframe LLC
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Username Protected wrote:
As a Pilot, you wear a Beechcraft, or you ride in a Cessna or Piper like a piece of freight.


Oh... I don’t know. I like em all, and any pilot can wear or ride any plane. You can get pretty one-with-the-plane flying the backcountry in a Cessna ... Or a Beechcraft.

I like 'em all too. They all put shoes on my kids feet :D They are all in fact, purpose built for a market segment, and all do well in these respective markets. All have flaws.

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 Post subject: Re: Beech vs Cessna Quality
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2018, 22:01 
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Joined: 06/18/12
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Company: Revolutionary Realty
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Quote:
All have flaws.
(All the) time. :pilot:

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