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 Post subject: Citation at Steamboat
PostPosted: 25 Dec 2017, 23:46 
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Should I take the Klingon into SBS in good weather. Field is at 6700 feet. Book says 2800 ft needed (discounts thrust reversers). Field is 4,500 with a 500ft displaced threshold. Why not? I've been in there in the Baron.

Any thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: Citation at Steamboat
PostPosted: 25 Dec 2017, 23:48 
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What does your experienced Citation mentor say?

George

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 Post subject: Re: Citation at Steamboat
PostPosted: 25 Dec 2017, 23:49 
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He said do it if the runway is not contaminated.


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 Post subject: Re: Citation at Steamboat
PostPosted: 25 Dec 2017, 23:51 
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Username Protected wrote:
He said do it if the runway is not contaminated.


Just found out my wife is pregnant so my risk profile is making me more conservative than I've ever been so asking the brotherhood for thoughts.


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 Post subject: Re: Citation at Steamboat
PostPosted: 26 Dec 2017, 00:02 
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Username Protected wrote:
He said do it if the runway is not contaminated.


Just found out my wife is pregnant so my risk profile is making me more conservative than I've ever been so asking the brotherhood for thoughts.


Congrats.

When do you plan on leaving and what is the forecast? Will you have access to a hangar if weather gets bad? What are the forecast winds between 12000-23000?
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 Post subject: Re: Citation at Steamboat
PostPosted: 26 Dec 2017, 00:04 
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Should not be a problem provided you can hold Vref within 5kts and .6 AOA and plant the wheels by the 1000’ touch down zone. Be true to yourself on the stabilized approach parameters you will accept or reject the landing.

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 Post subject: Re: Citation at Steamboat
PostPosted: 26 Dec 2017, 00:13 
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Username Protected wrote:
Should I take the Klingon into SBS in good weather. Field is at 6700 feet. Book says 2800 ft needed (discounts thrust reversers). Field is 4,500 with a 500ft displaced threshold. Why not? I've been in there in the Baron.

Some things to be mindful of.

The approach is a circling approach due to the steep angle (7.75 deg for the RNAV GPS E) needed to fly straight in. I'd suggest you not attempt this as a first landing in IMC, go to KHDN and try some other day.

Winds can be tricky and strong. Make sure you don't have a tailwind at ground level.

Be wary of warm temperatures, they can limit your takeoff weights. Might plan on a fairly low fuel load.

The book says it can be done for runway distances, but also check OEI climb gradients and terrain.

I would aim for putting it down on the runway closer to the numbers than the touchdown marker. Gives you more usable runway.

Beyond the runway, might want to check on hangar availability and GPU for start. When I was there some years ago, the GPU was a Lektro battery thing that wasn't up to starting an MU2.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Citation at Steamboat
PostPosted: 26 Dec 2017, 00:55 
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Username Protected wrote:
Should I take the Klingon into SBS in good weather. Field is at 6700 feet. Book says 2800 ft needed (discounts thrust reversers). Field is 4,500 with a 500ft displaced threshold. Why not? I've been in there in the Baron.

Any thoughts?


600’ displaced threshold. 3852’ runway available for landing.

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 Post subject: Re: Citation at Steamboat
PostPosted: 26 Dec 2017, 00:59 
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Username Protected wrote:
Should I take the Klingon into SBS in good weather. Field is at 6700 feet. Book says 2800 ft needed (discounts thrust reversers). Field is 4,500 with a 500ft displaced threshold. Why not? I've been in there in the Baron.

Any thoughts?


600’ displaced threshold. 3852’ runway available for landing.


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 Post subject: Re: Citation at Steamboat
PostPosted: 26 Dec 2017, 01:01 
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The chart includes all the runway including the displaced threshold.


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 Post subject: Re: Citation at Steamboat
PostPosted: 26 Dec 2017, 01:16 
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Mike C makes great points. Unsaid what is book for takeoff at 0 to +10C? Same with takeoff on contaminated Runway or landing? Are you close to gross?

Runway sure rolls by quickly during landing because of the faster TAS. That does play with the mind and site picture. Have you been practicing landing at altitude on simulated short runways with 7+ GP? 2900’ to lose in 4.6 miles. So if it’s basically 3,000’ OVC and 10 miles it’s VFR but a demanding by the numbers descent and approach.

Look at the departure as much as the approach. Windy day at 12,000’ might signify a no go landing. HDN’s 10,000’ looks inviting.

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 Post subject: Re: Citation at Steamboat
PostPosted: 26 Dec 2017, 01:26 
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Username Protected wrote:
The chart includes all the runway including the displaced threshold.


LDA - 3852 both runways.

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C29A7C94-CC44-488C-81C9-4BF764ADA466.png


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 Post subject: Re: Citation at Steamboat
PostPosted: 26 Dec 2017, 01:29 
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Username Protected wrote:
The chart includes all the runway including the displaced threshold.


Usable Landing Length - 3852

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D288DD82-D48A-4E42-A698-3024E86D377A.png


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 Post subject: Re: Citation at Steamboat
PostPosted: 26 Dec 2017, 01:50 
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IIRC the airport is nestled in some pretty big terrain.

I landed at TEX the other day. ASOS Winds were 260@9 (no big deal but I decided to switch to 27). I got into some pretty good mtn wave on downwind and base and I wound up high and fast on final and landed a bit (maybe 200') past the TDZ. But it is a 7000'+ runway and it was fine.

I'd expect that SBS could have the same challenges on some days and it could make a short field landing pretty challenging. Maybe someday I'll take the CJ into that short of a field but landing in the mountains is at least a 1000' add to my minimum runway length so I wouldn't try that one. Too bad that Hayden is so expensive - if you can get a car at Craig (KCAG), I'd go to there - comparatively flat around there..

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 Post subject: Re: Citation at Steamboat
PostPosted: 26 Dec 2017, 01:51 
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A normal landing configuration in a Citation will not give you 1400 fpm descent rate at 100kt Vref for the 7.75 GP. And you will not have enough energy for a normal flare. You will have a very hard landing or float unsafely.

You have to come in flatter and lower than shown on the RNAV chart.

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