We end up committing a lot of bandwith to the PC12, yet there’s no thread dedicated to it... unless its been dormant for years. The SF50 gets 400 pages... and PC12 gets zero?

I know there’s a forumn just for Pilatus... but just like CJP... it isn’t the same as Beechtalk.

We have some raving PC12 fans on here (including me) so let’s give honor where honor is due.

It's a really great airplane. I'll start with the negatives... the 90's called, they want their trackball back. No ADSB in. Pilot seats hard as a rock... fixed with an Oregon aero pad, but still. That's about all I can think of. They nailed everything else.

Pushing into winter winds, more speed would be nice. My experience and FlightAware tracks show they are slower than quoted numbers. -45 seem to be 260ish and -47 seem to be 270ish, though the Ng I have a lot of time in never seemed to go over 265. I am sure it’s faster on cold days though.

I have passed multiple pc12s in cruise. That makes me feel much better about not being able to afford one:-)

It’s amazing how many things it does well.

Ride in turbulence not great, but cabin more than makes up for it.

Trackball? Really? I remember those. One of the more ergonomically unfriendly devices.

I'll add some positives.

That cargo door really is that cool. I've lugged more bags up the airstair... or lifted them chest high to lever them into the door of a King Air than I care to remember. The ability to place luggage right into the baggage is cool. (don't get me started on 510 / 525 / 550 / 560 Citation baggage... or lack there of)

Two guys can stick a Yeti full of beer or moose meat right into the cargo area... beat that!!!

The toilet area is an engineering marvel! It seems to be in an odd place, but it works and provides the largest lav of an airplane in that class.

The airstair might as well be a pilot door, just like my original love, the Turbo Commander, it's in the airplane... hang a left and your in the cockpit. Far better than closing the door and then walking the tightrope between passengers trying to get to the cockpit.

The airplane just looks cool... period.

The /45 and /47 refers to gross weight. Technically there's an "in-between" range that has the gross weight increase but not upgraded engine of the NG (which is also an /47). The in between version is what I have. I searched for over a year to find a nice one. It has the advantage of having a higher useful load (the NGs got fatter) and flexibility on avionics (there's an upgrade available that adds auto-throttle now) and you can even add the upgraded engine of the NG if you want (for way more money than most are willing to spend).

Probably more details that most care to know....

Great info Norm! The IS&S panel and auto throttle is NICE!

Great airplane.
Super rugged.
Great short field performance.
Very economical compared to 200 King Air.
Relatively cheap to maintain.
Nice quiet cabin.
Good Freon A/C that works on ground power.
Cargo door is nice to have.
Expensive to acquire.
Good resale.
In turbulence the ride is really rough. Rougher than a stucco bathtub unless you slow it down to about 150 KIAS.

Great tread,

That PC12/45 landed at my farm last summer. It had an older still IS&S panel.

Interesting;I haven’t heard from many who don’t like the CCD.

I do. You can be hanging upside down in the belts and calmly controlling the avionics.

I’d be interested to know why you feel that way. Personally, I like it better than touchscreens.

My experience with the IS&S in the Eclipse Jet was so bad, I’m not sure I’d tanke any airplane with it.

That's an interesting observation. It seemed to me that the Eclipse owners generally raved about it. Despite its many, and obvious, shortcomings.

Lots of great points already posted. Here are some positives and negatives from an NG ownership perspective. We were initially looking for a /47 (NGs are technically /47Es). As Norm said, the /47s sell fast; only 110 or so made and the US Air Force owns a lot of them. We made several offers on /47 but they sold in a matter of hours so we expanded our search to NGs. Our typical missions are 300nm with 5-6 people and occasional 1000nm+ with 8-10 people.


Support
- Pilatus is ranked #1 in product customer support in Professional Pilot and AIN surveys for several years in a row. Pilatus is a private company focused on long term results, sometimes their long term views and focus on perfection can result in delays for fixing the small things mainly related to the Apex.
- Pilatus maintains tight control over who works on their airplanes and who can purchase the required tools and test sets. Some don't like this as they feel it drives up costs and decreases competition, but what it really does is improve support/reliability though issue reporting to Pilatus and PWC through trained mechanics that work in qualified service centers.
- The last several years, Pilatus has dedicated a lot of resources to the PC24, thus we have seen few improvements to new PC12s. With the PC24 certified and the Denali on the horizon, I think we will see bigger improvements to the PC12 in the next few years.
- strong and growing Owners and Pilots Association. http://pilatusowners.org

Operations
- Reliability is excellent. Out of the 1400 hours in the last 4 years, we have canceled 1 flight due to a maintenance issue. (related to the fire detection loop). Reliability is why you see so many fleet operators choose the PC12.
- Speed is mediocre but sufficient. I get a reliable 265 to 273 TAS depending on ISA. (5 blade prop) I don’t think the PC12 will see much speed improvements in the future. There is only so much speed that you can get out of that fat wing and still be able to land less than 1000’.
- IMO, the Honeywell Apex is simple but NOT intuitive and that’s why a lot of folks don’t like it initially. I needed a 100 hours before I appreciated it. The Apex uses Primus Epic operating system, architecture and bus system found in the “big iron,”Gulfstream/Falcons. Synthetic Vision, VNAV, FMS, loading approaches, and the redundancy make it a very capable system. The autopilot is rock solid. I love the CCD (trackball).
- Honeywell hasn’t understood how to deal with PC-12 owners or fleet operators. Honeywell is ranked one of the last in terms of avionics customer support and PC12 owners have felt the pain in the early years of the NG. All the issues are worked out now, but what frustrates me most is the untapped potential of the Apex.
- Annual inspections plus optional150hour inspection for part 91 ops. Pilatus will soon extend the 150hour inspection to 400hrs or annual whichever comes first. Annuals can usually be completed in 1.5 weeks.
- Dual zone temperature control (Cockpit & Cabin)

Safety
- 2 AOAs; dynamic speed bug. Approach speed is automatically bugged based on AOA (weight and flap settings). A low speed awareness shaker/stick pusher system based off AOAs.
- Simple to operate; single engine
- Wide CG range
- Excellent glide ratio; 16:1 glide ratio; from 30,000’ can glide for 32 minutes or 90 miles.
- Low stall speed; less energy to dissipate at landing or crash landing
- Fuel System - automatic fuel balancing; redundant fuel delivery; no fuel lines in cabin
- PC-12 has one of the lowest accident rates of all GA turbine powered aircraft

My upgrade/improvement list:
- reduce cabin noise; it’s not bad, but I think Pilatus can get it better using some of the “tuning forks” technology that the newer King Airs have.
- Improve Apex database update speed/process; not bad but takes :30 min to do a complete update.
- option to sync pilot and co-pilot intercom settings
- Automatically bug cruise power settings based off current conditions
- Use XM winds aloft to improve accuracy of destination fuel computation (its pretty darn accurate now but for long flights you have to manually enter forecast winds aloft data into the FMS otherwise it just uses current ground speed)

Of course, one of the best features for owners is value retention, as JC says, really cuts your total cost of ownership. PC12s make more financial sense for higher utilization operators.

Resources besides this thread for those interested in purchasing a PC12.

http://pilatusowners.org/pc-12-buyers-info/

In addition, my usual trips are day trips out of KSJT so any BTers are welcome to ride along to learn more about the PC12

almost 1000 hrs now, quite a bit in the mountains............ride has always been pleasant.........no worse in fact that most other airplanes I'm had the privilege of flying in.........a bump is a bump is a bump, no matter the wing loading...........the damn airlines continually search for altitudes that makes the bumps imperceptible to their passengers......

the rest of your comments.......money

You are such a pansy!!!! Trackball is way, way better than any touchscreen..........frigging easy as hell to use and I don't have to reach over and clean that screen you just dirtied up.......we all know you pick your nose!!!!!

Agreed on the butt lining, I think it was me who solved your problems.........Pilatus did that on purpose to help the after market folks!