Gentlemen,
I am 2 days away from putting in a offer on a TBM 700. (Need bought by end of the yr) Then along comes the wife and dad with the ideas. Wife wants me to look at King air or a Conquest (2 engines). I need a opinion, a cut to the chase Pros & Cons list. I believe a SETP is more reliable then a Twin piston. But do I need to go slower and have 2x the mx and fuel? Seems the capital invest is the same. Currently don't have a big enough hanger for either anyway but in the works. Shoot me your thoughts and opinions. BTW 600 mile missions, occasional long trip with family (wife & 3 small kids) but generally Me and another guy.
Ryan

Data says get the TBM, emotion and wife acceptance factor says get the twin.

All depends what type of man you are.

Let us know what you end up with.

"First World Problems"

It's not every day that we hear about the wife wanting MORE plane. All of the aircraft you mention will easily service that nominal mission, but so would a Cessna 210... so you're really down to balancing opex versus capex and how much extra capability do you want to pay for?

The twins will burn approximately twice the fuel, but will not fly twice as fast. You're mostly buying redundancy, margin, and a little bit of extra performance in climb & useful load.

If the wife wants a King Air, dude, buy one! The Cessna will burn less fuel (TPE-331 is more fuel efficient than PT-6) and has a higher TBO; for an owner/pilot a mid-time Garrett is likely to be a 'lifetime' engine, but a fresh PT-6 can be, as well, depending on how much you fly.

Great problem to have. The only hazard here is the rush you're in to buy one before EOY.

Free internet opinion, worth what you paid for it -- or maybe less! Good luck.

Mark

Happy wife, happy life. You’re looking to cash flow over $100k/yr doing this. Make sure your wife supports those bills.

Rushed decisions are bad decisions. If you _have_ to close in the next 9 business days, I’d suggest a king air. Biggest fleet, most available expertise gives you a low but nonzero chance of finding the right deal.

I have been researching a TBM for 1 1/2 yrs now. Obviously if I went the way of something else I would have to wait till I started research all over again. There’s no such thing as good wife problems or bad ones. They are all bad! Lol

Not exactly.

Conquest I fuel burn at FL260: 400 pph @ 263 KTAS (source: my airplane)
TBM700 fuel burn at FL260: 364 pph @ 300 KTAS (source: http://www.caijets.com/tbm/cost.htm)

The King Air cabin is hard to beat (PC 12 much the same). Coming from a P Baron, I don’t think the TBM is much bigger. The King Air is so nice I don’t think my wife likes the CJ2 as much.

Congrats on looking at new ride. Get what she likes. It will be easier in the long run.

Any of your twin turbine choices are good birds. The kids will grow a lot in the next few years. KA 90s have lots of space and with increased gross weight to 10.5K# will carry a bunch plus full fuel. Get wing lockers.

This is BEECHTALK after all.

My real life fuel burn at FL260 approaching ISA temps is 460pph and 255+ KTAS. (-135A engines which I would recommend.) If you get a C90A or newer or add AA pitot cowls to older AF, you should be able to approach 260-265 KTAS.

Good shopping.

RM

Ryan,

Its going to be challenging to get an airplane bought and closed by year end, assuming you’ll do proper due dilligence and prepurchase inspections.

You’ve got a few days between Christmas and New Years to do the closing and that is it. I can get the FAA’s schedule for you, but it is going to be tight.

I have flown my 441 for 3 years. Great for long trips, have been doing Alaska to Scottsdale non-stop several times, and Scottsdale to Cancun with 10people. Mine is RVSM, and at FL340/350 fuel burn is total around 340 to 370 lbs/hr. Full fuel payload is over 900 lbs, and that is good for 2000+NM. At 1500 NM, cabin payload can be around 1500 lbs..... TYpical Cruise speed is 300KTAS +/-15 from about 16000 to FL350. At around FL300/300Knots it burns just around 400 lbs/hr. I added 2layers of soundproofing, the foam type and the bag type, passengers say it is the quietest TP they have been in, and quieter than many jets. My own measurements with an iPhone app indicates 3dB noiser than the back of a 737 (take that with a grain of salt and only as one data-point indication). In the upper flight levels the cabin do become very quiet!

If buying used, the computer engine controls on the Cessna is great: single button start (virtually eliminating possibility of hot starts). The engines are normally operated under computer control, always making sure temp and torq limits are never exceeded, increasing chances of buying a reliable/not abused engine (?). The 331’s put out around 1100 hp thermodynamic, but are computer limite to 636 hp, which they maintain to around 20000 feet. Should you loose an engine, or beloaded with ice, the computers can be turned off, and engines will be happy to produce say 840 HP which they doeveryday all day in other airframes....

This year I took my 441 to Reds aircraft service in Kissammee Florida and got it enrolled in the “low utilization”maintenance program. Under this program the SID inspections are greatly reduced, and inspections goes from say every 3 years to say every 10000 hours, etc. Don Beaty runs the shop, have been involved with the 441’s since he was at the factory in the 70’s, and knows everything there is to know about Conquests: phone 321 474 1169

My engines were overhauled just before I bought my plane, one cost $160k, the other $190k to overhaul, and according to what I hear the average cost is $200k or less per engine, good for 5000 hours. Hence, keeping two 331’s maintained will cost about the same or less per hour as one PT-6 as found in a Blackhawk, PC-12, or TBM. Hence, it is a users choice: Fuel burn will be roughly equivalent, 441 faster than a PC-12, maybe a little slower than the newest TBM, but due to RVSM will beat both PC-12 and TBM in payload and range. Other than the King Air 350 with extended fuel, no King Air is comparable in range, speed, and payload. Any King Air will burn more fuel. My hangar fuel, is around $2/gallon and gets me comfortably round trip from Scottsdale to San Francisco or Jackson Hole without taking on fuel - just paying ramp fees.....another $7/gallon savings many times

Based on the recent magazine articles on the King Air 250, I realized no twin TP is even close to matching the 441 in performance, hence buying a newer TP is out for me ( wife wants 2 propulsion units!). Therefore, after after the Reds Aircraft maintenance I took it to a paint and interior shop to make it as brand new as possible . My Garmin G600’s will be replaced by the new Garmin TXi displays in February....

The lower price of the 441 will help pay for an older airframe and more maintenance, but no mandatory gear overhaul will save some money...

In my mind, can’t go wrong with a TBM, PC-12, or a 441. But if a single TP is under consideration, what about the EPIC?

You're likely going to make an expensive mistake if you try to buy an airframe you know nothing about in less than two weeks.

First, let's correct some things already said in this thread:

The TBM is much bigger inside than a 58P. You and your wife will both notice the difference in available room.

The TBM 700 does not go 300 KTAS. It's a 285-290 knot airplane. Which is a lot faster than a C90 King Air. That may not matter to you but it does to my wife because she just wants to get there. Surprisingly 30 minutes matters to her.

Now, you didn't say whether you're considering a 700A,B or C but the big door on the C is a nice thing to have.

The Conquest and the KA are both nice airplanes but they are certainly going to cost more to operate. You didn't indicate whether the Conquest you'd be interested in is a 425 or 441. BIG difference in cost, capability and speed. You didn't indicate your capital budget or your operating budget but if the capital spent on any of the 3 planes is the same then the TBM, Conquest and KA are going to cost increasingly more in that order. Chip has access to Aircraft Cost Calculator, which isn't a scalpel for cost analysis but which can give you a relative idea what you're looking at in incremental cost increases. He offers that all the time and I'm sure would do for you.

My wife wanted me to buy a Pilatus. Frankly, I didn't want to spend an extra 1.3 million dollars last year because of the needs of my business. So, I bought a TBM. She loves it. It's waaay better experience for passengers than the SE pistons I cam from. Your wife will find the same is true regardless of which one of these planes you buy.

If you insist on trying to humor her by rushing into a purchase of something you haven't had the time to really vet for sure don't buy a bargain. Spend more and get the best of the breed and get the breed's expert to do the prebuy work and arrange for the inspections appropriately. That'd be Tom Clements for KA's and maybe Max can tell you where to go for a Conquest.

I probably shouldn't answer given my lack of experience in either, but the first thing that came to my mind is that a Conquest II will have the Garrett motors, which to me seems like a big advantage. TBM has a pretty enthusiastic owner base though.

One can sense your wife, etc would prefer two engines. It’s a common sense in non-flyers. You probably need two engines.

How much bigger is the King Air cabin than the 441?

Assuming we're just talking about the 90 series it's quite a bit. Noticeably larger, easier to move around, airier, etc.