28 Mar 2024, 05:25 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
|
|
Page 1 of 1
|
[ 15 posts ] |
|
Username Protected |
Message |
Username Protected
|
Post subject: list of SP jets Posted: 09 Dec 2017, 15:40 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 11/08/13 Posts: 1913 Post Likes: +1167 Location: KCRQ
Aircraft: Breeezy, 182,601P
|
|
Is ther a list of single pilot jets? Is ther any real differnce between the SP STC's and thoose initally certified SP ? IE can you fly all of them with a 3rd class medical etc... Lastly other than the globalflyer what is the longest range SP jet? Paul
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: list of SP jets Posted: 11 Dec 2017, 01:05 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23612 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Is ther a list of single pilot jets? Ones I know: SP certified: Cessna Citation 501, 510, 551, 525 (CJ, CJ1, CJ2, CJ3, CJ4, M2) Pilatus PC-24 Embraer Phenom 100, 300 Beech Premier 1, 1A Honda HA-420 One Aviation (Eclipse) 500, 550 SyberJet SJ30 Cirrus SF-50 Morane-Saulnier MS.760 Paris Jet (maybe?) SP with single pilot exemption: Cessna Citation 500, 550 (II, Bravo), S550, 560 (V, Ultra, Encore) (excluding military, demo, etc, just planes designed for travel) Quote: Is ther any real differnce between the SP STC's and thoose initally certified SP ? IE can you fly all of them with a 3rd class medical etc... There is no "single pilot STC" for airplanes certified two crew. In the case of the legacy Citations, you can get a single pilot exemption. You need to be commercial rated, have minimum turbine experience, take an initial SPE course beyond the type rating, and do an SPE recurrent course every year to maintain it. You do NOT need a 2nd class medical for the SPE (this is often falsely stated as being required). Quote: what is the longest range SP jet? SJ30 or S550 with Williams, both about 2500 nm, both pretty rare. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: list of SP jets Posted: 11 Dec 2017, 17:09 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 12/14/08 Posts: 42 Post Likes: +23
Aircraft: PIlatus PC-12/47
|
|
Username Protected wrote: You do NOT need a 2nd class medical for the SPE (this is often falsely stated as being required). Mike C. Specifically which training facility will certify the exemption without a 2nd class medical? I thought this was resolved over at CJP where it was shown that the FAA had made the rounds and normalized this across all training facilities.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: list of SP jets Posted: 12 Dec 2017, 01:28 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23612 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Specifically which training facility will certify the exemption without a 2nd class medical? All of them if they do what the FAA exemption says. Quote: I thought this was resolved over at CJP where it was shown that the FAA had made the rounds and normalized this across all training facilities. Yes, and none of the exemptions required a 2nd class medical, they require a commercial rating. Not the same thing. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: list of SP jets Posted: 12 Dec 2017, 12:41 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 12/14/08 Posts: 42 Post Likes: +23
Aircraft: PIlatus PC-12/47
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Specifically which training facility will certify the exemption without a 2nd class medical? All of them if they do what the FAA exemption says. Quote: I thought this was resolved over at CJP where it was shown that the FAA had made the rounds and normalized this across all training facilities. Yes, and none of the exemptions required a 2nd class medical, they require a commercial rating. Not the same thing. Mike C. Ok, but specifically, do you know of any single facility that, if I call them, they will confirm that they will not require the 2nd class? I understand you believe you have interpreted the regs properly and perhaps you have but it's what the facility says that matters in the end when getting the signoff.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: list of SP jets Posted: 12 Dec 2017, 15:15 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 01/07/15 Posts: 173 Post Likes: +135 Location: KPDK
|
|
Mike C.[/quote] Ok, but specifically, do you know of any single facility that, if I call them, they will confirm that they will not require the 2nd class? I understand you believe you have interpreted the regs properly and perhaps you have but it's what the facility says that matters in the end when getting the signoff.[/quote] Premier Jet Training https://premierjettraining.com/legacy-citation/The single pilot exemption allows the pilot to fly any CE500 series type rating series as a single pilot. Course Prerequisites: Operations have to be conducted under part 91 Pilot must hold a airline transport pilot or commercial pilot certificate with instrument rating Pilot must hold a first or second class medical certificatePilot must have logged at 1,000 total flight time to include: 50 hours of night time 75 hours of instrument time 40 hours of actual instrument time 500 hours as pilot in command or second in command time or combination of both in turbine powered aircraft Use of a boom microphone and headset while exercising privileges of exemption Use a full functioning autopilot Complete a yearly recurrent single-pilot training program This course can be added to an existing CE-500 PIC, upgrade or recurrent type rating course
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: list of SP jets Posted: 12 Dec 2017, 15:43 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 12/14/08 Posts: 42 Post Likes: +23
Aircraft: PIlatus PC-12/47
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Pilot must hold a first or second class medical certificate
So, your example requires a 1st or 2nd class certificate. The 1st class is more challenging than the 2nd. The question is whether any facilities will grant the waiver for a 3rd class medical certificate holder. I believe that certain facilities used to do this but the FAA has put the kibosh on this. The new requirement is multi-commercial and 2nd class (or better) medical (plus experience requirements). I was asking Mike C. if he could provide any specific instances to the contrary. I don't think he will find them any longer.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: list of SP jets Posted: 12 Dec 2017, 18:23 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 02/10/12 Posts: 6819 Post Likes: +7927 Company: Minister of Pith Location: Florida
Aircraft: Piper PA28/140
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Premier Jet Training https://premierjettraining.com/legacy-citation/The single pilot exemption allows the pilot to fly any CE500 series type rating series as a single pilot. Course Prerequisites: Operations have to be conducted under part 91 Pilot must hold a airline transport pilot or commercial pilot certificate with instrument rating Pilot must hold a first or second class medical certificatePilot must have logged at 1,000 total flight time to include: 50 hours of night time 75 hours of instrument time 40 hours of actual instrument time 500 hours as pilot in command or second in command time or combination of both in turbine powered aircraft Use of a boom microphone and headset while exercising privileges of exemption Use a full functioning autopilot Complete a yearly recurrent single-pilot training program This course can be added to an existing CE-500 PIC, upgrade or recurrent type rating course I believe the above is for the blanket 500 series exemption. 501/551/510 are certified SP and I haven't seen anything more than a PP/AMEL-IA and 3rd class (although insurers might have higher requirements) needed for the type rating. I hope I'm correct!
_________________ "No comment until the time limit is up."
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: list of SP jets Posted: 12 Dec 2017, 21:11 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23612 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Ok, but specifically, do you know of any single facility that, if I call them, they will confirm that they will not require the 2nd class? I spoke with a Citation instructor and DPE who offers SPE and he said no 2nd class. Name was Mitch Ange out of Phoenix, aka Arizona Type Ratings. Alas, no web site or written evidence to support this claim. If an outfit requires 2nd class or better medical, then they are adding requirements above and beyond the actual exemption language. Note that the exemption USED TO require 2nd class medical or better. For example, 9917 exemption (VUE, inc) used to say: b. Hold a current class I or II airman medical certificate;
c. Hold an airline transport pilot certificate with a C-500 type rating or commercial pilot certificate with an airplane instrument rating and C-500 type rating;Now it just says: b. Hold an airline transport pilot certificate with a CE-500 type rating or a Commercial Pilot certificate with an airplane instrument rating and CE-500 type rating before training under VUE’s CE-500 single-pilot training program;The medical requirement is gone. This changed in 2013. The web sites just have not caught up with the times. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: list of SP jets Posted: 13 Dec 2017, 13:13 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 12/14/08 Posts: 42 Post Likes: +23
Aircraft: PIlatus PC-12/47
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Premier Jet Training https://premierjettraining.com/legacy-citation/The single pilot exemption allows the pilot to fly any CE500 series type rating series as a single pilot. Course Prerequisites: Operations have to be conducted under part 91 Pilot must hold a airline transport pilot or commercial pilot certificate with instrument rating Pilot must hold a first or second class medical certificatePilot must have logged at 1,000 total flight time to include: 50 hours of night time 75 hours of instrument time 40 hours of actual instrument time 500 hours as pilot in command or second in command time or combination of both in turbine powered aircraft Use of a boom microphone and headset while exercising privileges of exemption Use a full functioning autopilot Complete a yearly recurrent single-pilot training program This course can be added to an existing CE-500 PIC, upgrade or recurrent type rating course I believe the above is for the blanket 500 series exemption. 501/551/510 are certified SP and I haven't seen anything more than a PP/AMEL-IA and 3rd class (although insurers might have higher requirements) needed for the type rating. I hope I'm correct! They are using confusing language. All of the Part 25 aircraft (Mustang, CJ-series) are single pilot certified. You don't need an "exemption" to fly them single pilot (just a rating). The Part 23 aircraft (like the 560 series) do. So, they are technically correct in saying, "with this exemption you can fly all CE500 series aircraft as a single pilot."
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: list of SP jets Posted: 13 Dec 2017, 13:13 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 12/14/08 Posts: 42 Post Likes: +23
Aircraft: PIlatus PC-12/47
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Ok, but specifically, do you know of any single facility that, if I call them, they will confirm that they will not require the 2nd class? I spoke with a Citation instructor and DPE who offers SPE and he said no 2nd class. Name was Mitch Ange out of Phoenix, aka Arizona Type Ratings. Alas, no web site or written evidence to support this claim. If an outfit requires 2nd class or better medical, then they are adding requirements above and beyond the actual exemption language. Note that the exemption USED TO require 2nd class medical or better. For example, 9917 exemption (VUE, inc) used to say: b. Hold a current class I or II airman medical certificate;
c. Hold an airline transport pilot certificate with a C-500 type rating or commercial pilot certificate with an airplane instrument rating and C-500 type rating;Now it just says: b. Hold an airline transport pilot certificate with a CE-500 type rating or a Commercial Pilot certificate with an airplane instrument rating and CE-500 type rating before training under VUE’s CE-500 single-pilot training program;The medical requirement is gone. This changed in 2013. The web sites just have not caught up with the times. Mike C. Thanks. Very useful info.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: list of SP jets Posted: 13 Dec 2017, 17:25 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23612 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
|
|
Username Protected wrote: They are using confusing language. All of the Part 25 aircraft (Mustang, CJ-series) are single pilot certified. You don't need an "exemption" to fly them single pilot (just a rating). The Part 23 aircraft (like the 560 series) do. You have confused part 23 (501SP, Mustang, CJ series) with part 25 (II, SII, V, etc.). Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: list of SP jets Posted: 14 Dec 2017, 00:00 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 05/23/13 Posts: 6713 Post Likes: +7244 Company: Jet Acquisitions Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
|
|
Username Protected wrote: They are using confusing language. All of the Part 25 aircraft (Mustang, CJ-series) are single pilot certified. You don't need an "exemption" to fly them single pilot (just a rating). The Part 23 aircraft (like the 560 series) do. You have confused part 23 (501SP, Mustang, CJ series) with part 25 (II, SII, V, etc.). Mike C.
And of course the IISP... Part 23
_________________ It’s a brave new world, one where most have forgotten the old ways.
|
|
Top |
|
|
Page 1 of 1
|
[ 15 posts ] |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot post attachments in this forum
|
Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us
BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a
forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include
the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner,
Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.
BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates.
Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.
Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024
|
|
|
|