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 Post subject: Re: Flying the TBM 850
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2020, 05:53 
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Joined: 09/05/09
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Location: Small Town, NC
and yes- welcome.

PM with any 850 questions. We are coming our of our first annual this week- there is more TBM activity here than on the TBMOPA in my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the TBM 850
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2020, 21:03 
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Jordan, when you're using jet fuel, much of it will be purchased through contract sources. Set up a user account on jetfuelx.com. Then, apply for a bunch of fuel cards. Jetfuelx has a list. You'll figure it out. Saves a bunch.

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the TBM 850
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2020, 23:11 
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Username Protected wrote:
and yes- welcome.

PM with any 850 questions. We are coming our of our first annual this week- there is more TBM activity here than on the TBMOPA in my opinion.


Thank you and best of luck on the annual!


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the TBM 850
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2020, 23:11 
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Username Protected wrote:
Jordan, when you're using jet fuel, much of it will be purchased through contract sources. Set up a user account on jetfuelx.com. Then, apply for a bunch of fuel cards. Jetfuelx has a list. You'll figure it out. Saves a bunch.


Most excellent! Saving money in aviation is a rare and good thing!


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the TBM 850
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2020, 23:22 
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Joined: 01/28/13
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Aircraft: C195, D17S, M20TN
Saving” is a relative misnomer in aviation. Lower cost yes, save no. :cheers:

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the TBM 850
PostPosted: 09 Jun 2020, 09:41 
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Joined: 08/10/14
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Location: Northwest Arkansas (KVBT)
Aircraft: TBM850
Username Protected wrote:
Saving” is a relative misnomer in aviation. Lower cost yes, save no. :cheers:

True, but CAA might be the closest thing to actually saving money, so much so that I track the savings in my flight log. Compared to non-CAA fuel prices I saved over $4,000 last year on fuel purchased with the card.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the TBM 850
PostPosted: 12 Jun 2020, 08:14 
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Joined: 10/11/13
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Location: Raleigh, NC
Aircraft: Malibu,Husky,TBM7C2
TBMs have long legs. Evidenced by my flight yesterday.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the TBM 850
PostPosted: 12 Jun 2020, 08:22 
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Joined: 12/19/11
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Location: KTOL - Toledo, OH
Aircraft: 2004 SR22 G2
Wow that’s awesome. Not a ton of tailwind either. What do you feel is a practical still air range of the C2?

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the TBM 850
PostPosted: 12 Jun 2020, 08:32 
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Joined: 10/11/13
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Location: Raleigh, NC
Aircraft: Malibu,Husky,TBM7C2
Exactly the same as my bladder. 4.5 hours. Plane flies 290ish at 300 using 85 torque burning 52gph. It was cool upstairs yesterday so itt temps were 745 or so. So including climb figure 1200 km give or take outside temps. You can get more if you really pull it back to about 245 but that works against you in a strong headwind. Also that bladder thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the TBM 850
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2020, 18:23 
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Joined: 09/02/09
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Company: OAA
Location: Oklahoma City - PWA/Calistoga KSTS
Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
I sold my TBM 850 at the end of July after enjoying just under 4 years of ownership. During that time I flew 770 hours on the Hobbs and flew the plane literally all over the United States. I flew a lot of those hours solo and usually didn't have more than 3-4 others on board though I did fly a few trips with all all the seats full. Trip lengths ranges from practically nothing to just over 1200 NM. I thought now that I've sold it I'd share some of my thoughts about the plane and my ownership.

Transition

I transitioned to the TBM from a Cirrus SR22T and before that a couple of Bonanzas. While the plane was bigger, and a lot faster, the transition was pretty easy in terms of pure flying. I did the Simcom initial for a week and then had an instructor for a week and felt that that was really good preparation. I'd done a high altitude ride years ago with a group of Bt'ers and followed that up with training at Southern Aeromedical sponsored by TBMOPA. I'm glad I did that as it prepped me well for a high altitude emergency I had later that year.

Capability

The plane is built like a tank and I always felt confident in it regardless of weather conditions. It's practical range flying east is probably 1300-1400 miles non stop based on avionics range rings though I never did that. I made trips of 1300 plus miles a number of times but always stopped for gas. West bound 800-1000 miles is about it. I never had a CG issue to mess with. I could always fill the tanks and seats and when I needed to it would haul a lot of stuff. It's easy to load. I loved the pilot door. I wouldn't have one without it.

Speed

This is one of the reasons people buy TBM's. My plane had the gear door mod and a 5 blade prop. So, it should be a relatively fast example of its generation (Legacy 850). At 260 I regularly cruised between 305 and 312 depending on temps. I usually flew at 300 or 310 and typically cruised at about 300. My ITT limit was 800 and I liked to run a little cooler than that. One big hit to speed that they don't put in the advertising is the radar pod which costs 10 knots. As few times as I actually used it I almost wish I hadn't had it. I generally flight planned about 275 for block.

When I compared the TBM on trip times with its range and speed there was no light jet that beat it by enough to make it worth trading airplanes. Period. It would take a CJ2 or better with enough range to go 1200NM nonstop to do that. If you only need to carry 3-4 people it's hard to beat in its speed/range class.

Operating Costs

There are people who say TBM's are expensive to operate. They're right. My experience was that the numbers you see advertised are um, well, optimistic. Now, I fix things when they need it and don't defer maintenance. You pay now or later. I haven't added it up completely but I'm sure that, not counting the HSI I did this summer I averaged about $100AMU's a year for just under 200/hrs a year. There are guys who spend less.

But, the saying that you need to be able to write the check is correct. I had a pressurization failure right after annual a couple of years ago that cost $60k. Gear overhauls cost double what I'd heard after I did all the related things. It goes on but the point the plane isn't cheap and my experience was it cost a lot more than I thought it would and I thought I'd done my homework.

Depreciation

The two biggest expenses in aircraft ownership are capital costs and market depreciation. I did better than I expected at an annual depreciation of 2.7% over 4 years. I had planned for 5% so was very pleased with that.

Support

The service network is extensive and generally excellent. I used Avex who is first rate after enough frustrating, disappointing and other negative experiences with another service center who shall remain nameless. Avex probably isn't the cheapest but in general I think I got what I paid for: excellent service, great support, knowledgeable people and responsiveness to rival Cirrus. I'm not as complementary to the manufacturer though I don't really have anything critical to say either.

Things I wish I knew going in

The 10 year time frame is very expensive! I'd have bought an 11 year old plane or much newer. I would have looked harder at component overhaul time requirements. I got hung on a $6,000 prop hub overhaul because the plane was short 20 hours flying time at that point and the mfr. rec's recommended OH. So I did it. Other than that nothing.

Training

I had a dual G600 dual 750 set up and I think Simcom may have finally gotten a sim that is set up similarly. My choices were G1000 or steam. Suboptimal choices. I did one year initial and one recurrent there. One good experience and one mediocre. Overall not impressed. On the other hand I flew with several excellent TBM instructors and there is a solid community of those guys and training is easy to arrange and do.

Overall, I really enjoyed my ownership experience. I loved the plane. It was hard to find something to replace it with that I thought would do my missions better for a reasonable cost. I thought about buying another one pretty hard. I would definitely buy another one if I decided it was the best compromise for me in the future (all planes are compromises).

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the TBM 850
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2020, 18:46 
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Joined: 09/01/12
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Location: Fargo, ND
Aircraft: SR22T Stearman
Wow, great post!

I have had my TBM for 4 years now with the same time in the air. My experience mirrors yours (except my C2 is not that speedy).


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the TBM 850
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2020, 19:12 
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Joined: 12/19/11
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Company: Bottom Line Experts
Location: KTOL - Toledo, OH
Aircraft: 2004 SR22 G2
Great write up Tony but C’MON MAN! You left out the biggest part...what’s next?? Why did you sell?

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2004 SR22 G2


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the TBM 850
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2020, 20:09 
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Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
Username Protected wrote:
Great write up Tony but C’MON MAN! You left out the biggest part...what’s next?? Why did you sell?



viewtopic.php?f=49&t=110145&start=600

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the TBM 850
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2020, 20:53 
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Joined: 12/19/11
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Aircraft: 2004 SR22 G2
Username Protected wrote:
Great write up Tony but C’MON MAN! You left out the biggest part...what’s next?? Why did you sell?



viewtopic.php?f=49&t=110145&start=600


HO-LEE CRAP. I was following the Avanti thread for awhile but somehow completely missed this. I won't clog up this thread with that discussion but THAT'S AWESOME TONY!

Back to your TBM experience and $100AMUs / yr for 200 hrs, what all do have have figured into that number? Is that just fuel and mx or are you also including annuals, insurance hangar, training, subscriptions, etc? Clearly you're excluding capital and depreciation from that right?
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Corporate Expense Reduction Specialist
2004 SR22 G2


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the TBM 850
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2020, 21:26 
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Joined: 03/06/13
Posts: 36
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Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Aircraft: BE350, BD700
Sorry, guys. But how much exactly is "$100AMUs / yr"? My Canadian vernacular must be different. Thanks.


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