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06 Jul 2022, 00:33 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Stevens Aerospace (Banner)



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 Post subject: Re: Flying the TBM 850
PostPosted: 18 Feb 2022, 23:53 
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Joined: 03/22/14
Posts: 72
Post Likes: +52
Location: KMYF/ Kamiah, ID
Aircraft: AC90, BE36, C210
Username Protected wrote:
For terry- I was under the impression that owners get crucified at sale time without continuous service center maintenance history any insight on that?


Definitely a consideration, but I am maintaining ALL the schedule items so I don't expect a hit. I know of another TBM that sold recently that was not service center maintained and there were a lot of inspection/overhaul items skipped, and the price reflected that. The buyer didn't give any demerits on service center or not, but did due to the skipped items.

I'm really glad I am maintaining mine. I have found 4 major issues that were service center caused:

1) Poorly sealed WSI antenna on top of fuselage that caused corrosion

2) Chip Detector mod where the wire to the annunciator panel was not tied to the bundles and was too short.

3) A wire splice in the ground safety switch that was installed right where the left main weight-on-wheels wiring flexed. That's a big no-no for wiring. It broke right at the splice (I suspect the splice was needed when they cut the tie-wrap securing the bundle to the gear). I replaced the wire several feet past the flex point.

4) Left inertial separator ejector duct was not installed properly. There is a rubber seal that the outlet of the intake assembly fits into. It was just butted against the duct and the seal was malformed. I had to replace the seal to get it to fit properly.

And the fuselage bays under the floor were some of the dirtiest I have ever seen. The same service center was maintaining it for the previous 17 years. Unacceptable that they can't vacuum when they have the floorboards up every year.

But yeah, someone will say it is worth less due to the last few years being maintained by me, but I know it will get better maint that way.


The TBM broker network ( Cutter, Avex , Columbia) those folks are a cartel.
When I was looking for a C2 model, Avex was quick to outright disqualify a potential airframe for the crime having 3 years of logs in French. Fully service center maintained, but heaven forbid, any minor deviation from their perfect checklist and that prospective airframe was “cancelled”. Crazy how picky a group of brokers can be. A naive buyer looking for advice from Avex and others will be steered towards airframes the broker know’s inside and out because they don’t want to tarnish their reputation on any minor unknown variable. All about the perception of reality, not reality itself.
TBM’s seem to be unique in that regard.
By default, I found a different 300 kt. airplane capable of hauling 900 lbs over 900 km. At half the price. Still love the 700C2 and 850 though. Solid airplane.
:D

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the TBM 850
PostPosted: 19 Feb 2022, 00:13 
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Joined: 12/18/13
Posts: 415
Post Likes: +70
Company: Gray
Location: Lexington, KY
Aircraft: C-210N
Hey Mark, saw the 210 on your list, just curious what you selected that went 900 KM with 900 useful?

TBM is very impressive, but it sure is pricey.

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the TBM 850
PostPosted: 19 Feb 2022, 10:07 
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Joined: 05/23/08
Posts: 6040
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Location: CMB7, Ottawa, Canada
Aircraft: TBM - C185 - T206
Mark,

Avex is sure different but I wouldnt put all the service network in the same basket.

I have dealt with Columbia, Pompano and Muncie over the years and they are all great shops and easy to deal with.

Lets say I would not take my plane for mx in CA.

_________________
Former Baron 58 owner.
Pistons engines are for tractors.

Marc Bourdon


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the TBM 850
PostPosted: 19 Feb 2022, 10:31 
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Joined: 09/02/09
Posts: 7674
Post Likes: +5708
Company: OAA
Location: Oklahoma City - PWA/Calistoga KSTS
Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
On the flip side I took mine there for 3 out of the 4 annual events and HSI during my ownership and had a very satisfactory experience.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the TBM 850
PostPosted: 19 Feb 2022, 13:24 
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Joined: 03/22/14
Posts: 72
Post Likes: +52
Location: KMYF/ Kamiah, ID
Aircraft: AC90, BE36, C210
Username Protected wrote:
Hey Mark, saw the 210 on your list, just curious what you selected that went 900 KM with 900 useful?

TBM is very impressive, but it sure is pricey.

Thanks

The TBM community is a great group. My reference to the cartel was strictly in reference to using them as a buyers agent. My experience was limited, but they like to protect their customer’s exposure by sticking with known, service center only airframes. That keeps prices up, and sets a trend for maintenance inside the network. For support I hear plenty of good things, including the one in Camarillo.

Steve S, I ended up with a Commander 690B with the fast dash 10 engines after considering MU-2’s and briefly, a Klingon jet. Older twin turboprops have their own set of challenges and compromises. Acquisition cost was a factor.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the TBM 850
PostPosted: 05 Apr 2022, 17:12 
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Joined: 06/23/09
Posts: 2242
Post Likes: +680
Location: KIKK......Kankakee, Illinois
Aircraft: TBM 850
Anyone see the TBM 960 :D


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the TBM 850
PostPosted: 06 Apr 2022, 08:47 
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Joined: 10/11/13
Posts: 806
Post Likes: +589
Location: Raleigh, NC
Aircraft: Malibu,Husky,TBM7C2
https://www.flyingmag.com/daher-debuts- ... n-tbm-960/

Now featuring small jet pricing.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the TBM 850
PostPosted: 06 Apr 2022, 09:17 
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Joined: 08/31/17
Posts: 1288
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Aircraft: C180
Will they require engine program for those engine intervals?


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the TBM 850
PostPosted: 06 Apr 2022, 09:31 
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Joined: 07/17/15
Posts: 406
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Location: KSRQ KJVL
Aircraft: C510 PA-24
5 million……help me understand why I drop this load here, and not on an M2, unless I am in and out of short runways?

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Tony


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the TBM 850
PostPosted: 06 Apr 2022, 10:14 
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Joined: 01/01/10
Posts: 3311
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Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Aircraft: Citation Mustang
Username Protected wrote:
5 million……help me understand why I drop this load here, and not on an M2, unless I am in and out of short runways?

Great question, and one that continues to come up. I’ve asked a few TBM pilots why not a jet, and most say they prefer to be a single engine pilot and the thought of a type rating is more than they want to deal with.

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Previous A36TN owner


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the TBM 850
PostPosted: 06 Apr 2022, 10:47 
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Joined: 08/23/10
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Things the TBM offers that are superior to a single pilot jet: Reverse thrust (some CE-500, 501, 550, 560 excepted), cargo door, less fuel burn, better short field performance, better hot and high performance, better glide range, better range/payload, easy to slow down, lower stall speed.

The single pilot jet is superior at: Topping weather, cabin noise, engine out performance.

As always, it comes down to mission.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the TBM 850
PostPosted: 06 Apr 2022, 19:09 
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Joined: 01/01/10
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Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Aircraft: Citation Mustang
It does come down to mission, but I think there is more overlap than one might think.
How often do you land on slick runways?
Cargo door? How much cargo?
Short field performance. How short do you require?
Hot and High. Rate of climb required?
Glide range. Not a discussion point in a jet.
Range/Payload. How much required?
Lower stall speed. How much lower?
Yes, it comes down to mission. For most pilots, however, either one is satisfactory.

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Previous A36TN owner


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the TBM 850
PostPosted: 06 Apr 2022, 20:28 
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Joined: 07/08/11
Posts: 328
Post Likes: +127
Location: KHPN
Aircraft: M600
It's easy to get starry eyed about owning and flying a jet. For owner pilots, however, the jet requires much more effort to fly safely and efficiently. Weather, runway ops, cost, etc., all require more work. I think a lot of owner pilots prefer the tradeoffs of the SETP. Plus, SWMBO is easily swayed by autoland.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the TBM 850
PostPosted: 06 Apr 2022, 23:14 
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Joined: 01/01/10
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Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Aircraft: Citation Mustang
Username Protected wrote:
…For owner pilots, however, the jet requires much more effort to fly safely…

I disagree. With proficiency, a jet is much simpler to fly safely. I know a bunch of guys that have gone into Citations out of TBMs, and they all say the same thing.

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Previous A36TN owner


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the TBM 850
PostPosted: 07 Apr 2022, 04:47 
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Joined: 07/08/11
Posts: 328
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Location: KHPN
Aircraft: M600
Username Protected wrote:
With proficiency
That's my point.


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