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 Post subject: Re: PC24 Now Certified
PostPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 15:20 
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Username Protected wrote:

This is accurate.

There is a conflict of interest when the customer happiness Is based on an outcome the vendor can control.

If FSI or simcom starts getting hard nosed about checkrides the customers goes somewhere else.



I respectfully disagree - call Flight Safety today and ask them if you can do a CE510 recurrent course in the Cessna Mustang if you just did your initial type rating in the aircraft. You won't be permitted to register - meaning they are clearly looking to control the 'product' which is double edge sword in my mind. Obviously it can hurt business but if everyone bought into this (as Brent suggested) it could potentially change the landscape.

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 Post subject: Re: PC24 Now Certified
PostPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 15:23 
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Username Protected wrote:
So are legitimate pro pilots not allowed to have any other income stream in life except for selling their pilot skills?


Not necessarily (frankly I know a bunch that have other things they do - real estate, investing etc) but logically if the other career is someway tied to the asset at hand (aircraft operation) then per the insurance world it would put you in an owner/pilot class and 'rated' as such.

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 Post subject: Re: PC24 Now Certified
PostPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 15:31 
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Username Protected wrote:
Not necessarily (frankly I know a bunch that have other things they do - real estate, investing etc) but logically if the other career is someway tied to the asset at hand (aircraft operation) then per the insurance world it would put you in an owner/pilot class and 'rated' as such.

1. How do insurance companies test for this?
2. Don't you think that's kind of silly?

I have a good friend who is a pro 747 pilot. He's also a home builder. I'm sure most of his time and income comes from building homes.


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 Post subject: Re: PC24 Now Certified
PostPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 15:33 
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Username Protected wrote:
Not necessarily (frankly I know a bunch that have other things they do - real estate, investing etc) but logically if the other career is someway tied to the asset at hand (aircraft operation) then per the insurance world it would put you in an owner/pilot class and 'rated' as such.

1. How do insurance companies test for this?
2. Don't you think that's kind of silly?

I have a good friend who is a pro 747 pilot. He's also a home builder. I'm sure most of his time and income comes from building homes.


Sorry I'm just the messenger here. You can certainly call your underwriter directly or via your broker and address this topic with them. Thanks
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 Post subject: Re: PC24 Now Certified
PostPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 15:35 
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Sorry I'm just the messenger here. You can certainly call your underwriter directly or via your broker and address this topic with them. Thanks

I have and he's given me the same explanation you have.

So the argument that "pro pilots" spend all their time flying and have no distractions and no stress, no meetings etc. and that's why their better pilots than an owner operator isn't really true.?


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 Post subject: Re: PC24 Now Certified
PostPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 15:43 
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Username Protected wrote:

This is accurate.

There is a conflict of interest when the customer happiness Is based on an outcome the vendor can control.

If FSI or simcom starts getting hard nosed about checkrides the customers goes somewhere else.



I respectfully disagree - call Flight Safety today and ask them if you can do a CE510 recurrent course in the Cessna Mustang if you just did your initial type rating in the aircraft. You won't be permitted to register - meaning they are clearly looking to control the 'product' which is double edge sword in my mind. Obviously it can hurt business but if everyone bought into this (as Brent suggested) it could potentially change the landscape.


Sounds like they FS business model is to shut down in aircraft training by creating hurdles down the road for the owner operator.

Pro GA pilots and Owner/operators just want to get the training and get home. They go to where they have had a good experience or have heard good things.

135 Or 121 pilots don’t get that choice. They train at a company facility. You are trained to SOP. If you can’t meet the expectations you may get get some extra training. If you are unable to complete the course you are sent home for good or into retirement.

Two different ways to do the same thing. In one you are a customer, in another you are an employee up for review.

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 Post subject: Re: PC24 Now Certified
PostPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 15:50 
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FS won't even do the training in an Avanti unless you have a commercial ticket. I asked why, and they kind of didn't have an answer. "Sometimes we make exceptions", they said.

There are plenty of others, if they don't want the owner-operator business, then so be it. I hope their stock holders know that they're leaving money on the table.

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 Post subject: Re: PC24 Now Certified
PostPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 15:52 
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Username Protected wrote:
... - meaning they are clearly looking to control the 'product' which is double edge sword in my mind. Obviously it can hurt business but if everyone bought into this (as Brent suggested) it could potentially change the landscape.



Yes, you get it! Go to bat for us with the underwriters, don't let them insure owner pilots that aren't committed to proper training.


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 Post subject: Re: PC24 Now Certified
PostPosted: 12 Dec 2017, 01:31 
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I can pay myself to fly my airplane.

I think you just defined the opposite of a pro pilot.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: PC24 Now Certified
PostPosted: 12 Dec 2017, 01:33 
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Username Protected wrote:
The CJ4 that went down in the lake had obvious shortcuts to pilot training.

This conclusion seems premature and doesn't seem well grounded in the facts.

What evidence are you basing this on?

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: PC24 Now Certified
PostPosted: 12 Dec 2017, 08:18 
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Username Protected wrote:
The CJ4 that went down in the lake had obvious shortcuts to pilot training.

This conclusion seems premature and doesn't seem well grounded in the facts.

What evidence are you basing this on?

Mike C.


My evidence is that his type rating was done in the airplane. You are correct that my statement was premature, so maybe not “obvious shortcuts” but “possible shortcuts.” I could be wrong, but I’m betting he didn’t do 16 days of training and 16 hours in the sim for his initial type ride.

https://www.flightsafety.com/fs/5a180de ... on_CJ4.pdf

My point is that, a owner/pilot electing not to dedicate 16 days to train in a $9m jet is an indicator of his lack of commitment to training. I’d much rather insurance companies to keep training standards high rather than allow training shortcuts and then stop writing policies because of excess losses.

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 Post subject: Re: PC24 Now Certified
PostPosted: 12 Dec 2017, 08:26 
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Username Protected wrote:
I can pay myself to fly my airplane.

I think you just defined the opposite of a pro pilot.

Mike C.

I think you just edited my post.

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 Post subject: Re: PC24 Now Certified
PostPosted: 12 Dec 2017, 09:29 
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How about that PC24?!!

I can’t wait to see one!

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 Post subject: Re: PC24 Now Certified
PostPosted: 12 Dec 2017, 10:03 
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Username Protected wrote:
My evidence is that his type rating was done in the airplane.

The CJ4 was his second type rating (Mustang prior).

The pilot did a type rating in the CJ4. The pilot then attended and did a CJ4 recurrent in the FSI sim.

The belief is that he had 40-50 hours in type by the time all that was done.

Quote:
I could be wrong, but I’m betting he didn’t do 16 days of training and 16 hours in the sim for his initial type ride.

His training does not seem deficient to me, at least not from the quantity and type of it he received.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: PC24 Now Certified
PostPosted: 12 Dec 2017, 10:24 
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Username Protected wrote:
His training does not seem deficient to me, at least not from the quantity and type of it he received.

Mike C.

I agree.


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