28 Mar 2024, 05:30 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: PC24 Now Certified Posted: 19 Mar 2018, 16:19 |
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Joined: 08/16/15 Posts: 2867 Post Likes: +3575 Location: Ogden UT
Aircraft: Piper M600
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Username Protected wrote: heh heh, Brent beat me too it. Brent, Mrs was NOT with me, which was great, if not, I would have gone home with Serial #1.........George already promised......with a premium of course That plane has given me JET FEVER!!!!!! So I am coming up with numbers counting acquisition, operation and depreciation in the realm of $4000-5000/hr for a new owner flown PC-24 that flies 200 hours per year, equivalent to 400 hours/year in the PC12. How high does ones fever have to be, to rationalize that?
_________________ Chuck Ivester Piper M600 Ogden UT
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Post subject: Re: PC24 Now Certified Posted: 19 Mar 2018, 16:44 |
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Joined: 01/16/11 Posts: 11105 Post Likes: +7090 Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
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Username Protected wrote: So I am coming up with numbers counting acquisition, operation and depreciation in the realm of $4000-5000/hr for a new owner flown PC-24 that flies 200 hours per year, equivalent to 400 hours/year in the PC12. How high does ones fever have to be, to rationalize that? You're not very good with numbers. My math is around 1,600 an hour all in and the PC24 will also be appreciating........which did not factor into my equation!!!
_________________ ---Rusty Shoe Keeper---
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Post subject: Re: PC24 Now Certified Posted: 19 Mar 2018, 17:39 |
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Joined: 07/01/17 Posts: 64 Post Likes: +32 Location: Irvine, CA
Aircraft: DA-42-NG
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Username Protected wrote: You're not very good with numbers. My math is around 1,600 an hour all in and the PC24 will also be appreciating........which did not factor into my equation!!! The man-math is strong with this one! That said, I hope you get one ASAP Penman, many of us wish to live vicariously!
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Post subject: Re: PC24 Now Certified Posted: 19 Mar 2018, 19:16 |
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Joined: 03/03/11 Posts: 1845 Post Likes: +1819
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
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Username Protected wrote: You're not very good with numbers. My math is around 1,600 an hour all in and the PC24 will also be appreciating........which did not factor into my equation!!!
This made me laugh out loud. Nothing I love more than delusional pilot math to justify bigger, faster, farther!
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Post subject: Re: PC24 Now Certified Posted: 19 Mar 2018, 19:43 |
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Joined: 05/23/08 Posts: 6059 Post Likes: +702 Location: CMB7, Ottawa, Canada
Aircraft: TBM - C185 - T206
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Me think Penman is too high, I count it under $1000 / hour . Username Protected wrote: So I am coming up with numbers counting acquisition, operation and depreciation in the realm of $4000-5000/hr for a new owner flown PC-24 that flies 200 hours per year, equivalent to 400 hours/year in the PC12. How high does ones fever have to be, to rationalize that? You're not very good with numbers. My math is around 1,600 an hour all in and the PC24 will also be appreciating........which did not factor into my equation!!!
_________________ Former Baron 58 owner. Pistons engines are for tractors.
Marc Bourdon
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Post subject: Re: PC24 Now Certified Posted: 20 Mar 2018, 00:40 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23612 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: Banned? Maybe so for part 135 ops. It is usually in the limitations section of the AFM that you have to meet the runway performance numbers in the AFM. Every jet AFM I've read says that. If there's no way to compute the runway requirements due to conditions not in the AFM, the jet can't meet that limitation. Limitations apply to all operators, even part 91. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: PC24 Now Certified Posted: 20 Mar 2018, 03:55 |
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Joined: 03/09/13 Posts: 910 Post Likes: +449 Location: Byron Bay,NSW Australia
Aircraft: CE525,PA31
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Username Protected wrote: My math is around 1,600 an hour all in and the PC24 will also be appreciating........which did not factor into my equation!!! It would be way closer to $ 1600 then $ 5000. Must be similar to a P300 or CJ4 which I thought was round the 1800 mark, I’m sure Allen W will know. Not that I’ll ever know but I’ve been told the first few years of new jet ownership is pretty economical (excl capital costs) as parts are under warranty so program costs are less. Man I can’t wait for the new thread Penman starts when this arrives. Andrew
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Post subject: Re: PC24 Now Certified Posted: 20 Mar 2018, 05:30 |
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Joined: 02/13/10 Posts: 20103 Post Likes: +23513 Location: Castle Rock, Colorado
Aircraft: Prior C310,BE33,SR22
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Username Protected wrote: Once they get passed serial #20 and there is one available, I'm getting one.........it's that damn nice. The company had previously announced that they would deliver 23 in 2018. Are they still on schedule for that?
_________________ Arlen Get your motor runnin' Head out on the highway - Mars Bonfire
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Post subject: Re: PC24 Now Certified Posted: 20 Mar 2018, 06:47 |
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Joined: 07/23/09 Posts: 1067 Post Likes: +560 Location: KSJT
Aircraft: PC-24 Citabria 7GCBC
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Username Protected wrote: It is usually in the limitations section of the AFM that you have to meet the runway performance numbers in the AFM. Every jet AFM I've read says that. I checked in a few of the jet AFMs I have, and you are correct there are airport and runway condition limitations. No such limitation exists in the PC12 AFM. Thanks.
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Post subject: Re: PC24 Now Certified Posted: 20 Mar 2018, 07:01 |
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Joined: 01/29/08 Posts: 26431 Post Likes: +13064 Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: So I am coming up with numbers counting acquisition, operation and depreciation in the realm of $4000-5000/hr for a new owner flown PC-24 that flies 200 hours per year, equivalent to 400 hours/year in the PC12. How high does ones fever have to be, to rationalize that? How do you know what depreciation will be? That said, yes, it will depreciate. If it matches P300 and CJ3/4 depreciation alone will be $1K an hour. Give it a couple years Penman. We'll go ask Pilatus for a 2 for 2 deal together.
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Post subject: Re: PC24 Now Certified Posted: 20 Mar 2018, 09:58 |
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Joined: 08/16/15 Posts: 2867 Post Likes: +3575 Location: Ogden UT
Aircraft: Piper M600
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Username Protected wrote: My math is around 1,600 an hour all in and the PC24 will also be appreciating........which did not factor into my equation!!! It would be way closer to $ 1600 then $ 5000. Must be similar to a P300 or CJ4 which I thought was round the 1800 mark, I’m sure Allen W will know. Not that I’ll ever know but I’ve been told the first few years of new jet ownership is pretty economical (excl capital costs) as parts are under warranty so program costs are less. Man I can’t wait for the new thread Penman starts when this arrives. Andrew
No way. I know a guy with a P300 that outlays 500K for 200 hrs/yr that is $2500/hr and does not include depreciation or acquisition cost.
_________________ Chuck Ivester Piper M600 Ogden UT
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Post subject: Re: PC24 Now Certified Posted: 20 Mar 2018, 10:03 |
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Joined: 08/16/15 Posts: 2867 Post Likes: +3575 Location: Ogden UT
Aircraft: Piper M600
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Here is from something called Sherpa report, not fact checked but looks pretty reasonable.
A new Embraer Phenom 300 has a list price of $8.76m. The cost of a used plane ranges between $7.0m and $8.7m.
The total cost of ownership per year of the Phenom 300 is $1,505,487, including market depreciation of $350,200 or $2,030,787 including book depreciation of $875,500. Both figures include fixed costs per year of $343,380.
The only P300 I can find on controller, a 2011 with a price listed shows $1000/hr in depreciation alone.
_________________ Chuck Ivester Piper M600 Ogden UT
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Post subject: Re: PC24 Now Certified Posted: 20 Mar 2018, 15:30 |
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Joined: 03/09/13 Posts: 910 Post Likes: +449 Location: Byron Bay,NSW Australia
Aircraft: CE525,PA31
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Username Protected wrote: No way. I know a guy with a P300 that outlays 500K for 200 hrs/yr that is $2500/hr and does not include depreciation or acquisition cost. Here is some data I dug up. Andrew
Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.
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Post subject: Re: PC24 Now Certified Posted: 20 Mar 2018, 17:15 |
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Joined: 08/16/15 Posts: 2867 Post Likes: +3575 Location: Ogden UT
Aircraft: Piper M600
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Seems optimistic, but they say 1833/hr on their advertising for 400 hours, hourly is more for 200 hours per year due to fixed costs, which we are talking about for Penman's personal use . OK. The debt service on 8.7 mil is 413,250 per year, which adds another 1000/hr on 400 hours, (would be $2000/hr on 200 hours) and depreciation adds another 1000/hr, which brings us to 3833/hr flying 400 hours per year, and you can see that if you drop that down to 200 hours, due to the debt service and depreciation increasing hourly, you are right back at the 5000/hr. that I stated earlier. Again, how high does your fever have to be to want one of these unless you are a high volume charter operation? This is not a practical owner flown plane without a charter mission. At least I think I could find a much more satisfying and rewarding purpose for that kind of money.
_________________ Chuck Ivester Piper M600 Ogden UT
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Post subject: Re: PC24 Now Certified Posted: 20 Mar 2018, 17:42 |
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Joined: 01/30/09 Posts: 6088 Post Likes: +3381 Location: Oklahoma City, OK (KPWA)
Aircraft: planeless
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Username Protected wrote: Seems optimistic, but they say 1833/hr on their advertising for 400 hours, hourly is more for 200 hours per year due to fixed costs, which we are talking about for Penman's personal use . OK. The debt service on 8.7 mil is 413,250 per year, which adds another 1000/hr on 400 hours, (would be $2000/hr on 200 hours) and depreciation adds another 1000/hr, which brings us to 3833/hr flying 400 hours per year, and you can see that if you drop that down to 200 hours, due to the debt service and depreciation increasing hourly, you are right back at the 5000/hr. that I stated earlier. Again, how high does your fever have to be to want one of these unless you are a high volume charter operation? This is not a practical owner flown plane without a charter mission. At least I think I could find a much more satisfying and rewarding purpose for that kind of money. I say to you, begone with you and your facts
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