Other than a hangar, the Navajo is a small increment in increased costs over the Baron.

I maintain the 58 Baron is the best all around bang for the buck in aviation considering values and OpX. My Navajo was very slightly more to run, but with a whole lot more comfort and margin. Good ones aren’t cheap.

John,

I just bought Jesse's plane to get more room at almost the same cost of the baron.
The Panther Navajo can be flown very efficiently, it has very reliable Lycoming TIO-540-J2B engines, and a TON more room. I don't expect to spend much more per year operating this plane versus my C55. I definitely expect to spend less than the P Baron. Access to everything is much better than the baron which makes maintenance easier.

My daughters are 12 and 14 now and we are carrying more stuff. Now they can bring the stuff and friends along. My wife can now move from copilot seat to the back. There is also a potty for the ladies. Turbos will be nice when wanting to fly high to go skiing. They also don't mind wearing oxygen when we need to climb.

That has left me convinced that the short, light bodied Navajo with the 350hp turbocharged engines is an awesome performer with the room we need.

And the wife can’t do this in a Baron:

Love the way your wife thinks--bigger, better faster.

Oh my that's a lotta goodies.

I love T-bones! I have looked at every thread and really wanted one about 6 months ago.
Now I feel like the Navajo Panther is a fast Twin Bo and it's a large P Baron (minus pressurization).

The numbers quoted above were 175 true on 33 gph and 170 true on 36gph for the Navajo. TBone will do that all day long, although I usually run around 170 true at 30 gph or 165 true on 28... all without the trouble$$ of turbos. that d50 is just a huge b58 with an airstair door.

Those numbers vary with the type of Navajo. N7086Z is the small body without wing lockers with 350hp per side. Jesse's video was showing 190 tas at 13k 33gph.

I'm not comparing all Navajos to Twin Bo's, just 86Z. And yes the turbos do add another "thing" but I wouldn't say they are trouble. For the most part, they just work. But it is just one more thing I gotta be prepared for in case they do go south.

I would be happy with both. Been mentally tough owning a piper after 4 Beech.

Here is a vid...

viewtopic.php?p=2046242#p2046242

Also - the best comparison:

John

You’ll love the Navajo. I recently purchased a 82 PA-31-310 with the panther conversion giving it 350HP. It’s a bruit. I moved up from a E55 Baron. It flys like a big plane but it has way more utility and cabin class.... feel free to reach out if you want

Oh boy. Wish I hadn't seen that!
Great looking panel.

I like that your remote displays for the JPI are over the PFD. Ours are set higher on the glareshield with the left engine's on the pilot side and the right engine's on the copilot side. They're pretty much worthless in that position. Seeing yours makes me contemplate having ours moved.

She’s on the floor??? Air mattress...

Copied from a previous post I made some time ago. I wanted to make a couple of minor changes:

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I have about 2500hrs in PA31s, including -310, -350, -425 (the P-Navajo), and Panther versions of the -310, -325 & 350. A couple of hours in a Cheyenne 1A too. Some with & some without BLRs VG STC to increase MTOW (in a rare opportunity for me, I got to regularly fly a -350 pre- & post-VG installation. Lost several knots in cruise, gained a couple of hundred pounds useful load)

Some bits & pieces I find with them:

Navajo series: wing lockers are worth their weight & performance penalty for the gain in baggage volume. Especially if you need to carry long things such as fishing poles, surfboards, golf club bags etc but also a place to stuff 150lb of smaller bags. Don't bother trying to use Piper's locker straps to pull the baggage from the front of the locker. Buy a boat hook, or make one really cheaply with an old broom handle + hardware hook from Homedepot.

The cockpit of the Navajo lacks leg room. The spar carry through structure prevents the cockpit seats from going back far enough. Not an issue in the Chieftain because the cockpit is moved further forward of the spar carry through. Plenty of leg room in them.

I very much like the Lyc 540. So easy to start, even when hot. Not quite as stressed as the Cont 520 seems to be doing an equivalent job. I think the Cont 550 is a more equal engine.

Factory aircon is great, at the expense of taking a ~2' chunk out of the RH wing locker space. Pretty much an outlet at every seat position. Don't be too surprised if in heavy rain with a high electrical load the RH alternator light flickers on. The aircon compressor fitment moves the RH alternator to a weather exposed position at the front of the cowl. Never have worked out whether it's the belt slipping when drenched, or water getting into the alternator. Sometimes getting the belt tensioned works, other times not.

Newer PA31s have a much better panel layout. Especially with the warning lights arrangement. Newer ones ~1978+ have a single panel in the coaming to house all the warning lights. Older ones are rather scatter gunned, with the nose baggage & cabin door lights on the far right of the overhead panel, fuel pressure on the windscreen's centre column, and the alternator fail on the lower left sidewall under the CB panel, near your left calf. Cockpit lighting controls are also better.

Newer PA31s also have a preselect flap switch so you don't have to hold the switch until the flaps reach your desired position. Those newer types also have flap asymmetry protection which kills flap movement if there's a flap split. The types without flap asymmetry protection have an AD that limits max flap to 25deg.

Older PA31s have a low gear extension speed (only 130kts-ish) which makes them a pain to descend & slow down. Newer ones are up in the 150s so much better for arranging your arrival.

Be careful of hot-bus lighting. The nose locker, the cockpit overhead, cabin entry & (depending on interior cabinetry) the aft amenities cabinet are all permanently live. Some PA31s have an additional manual switch in the nose locker to disable the light there, otherwise it's on whenever the nose door is open.

Mods/STCs
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Colemill's Panther mod: Overall, I like that it removes the CR (for CR types) so all engine parts become interchangeable, eliminating bespoke anti-clockwise specific parts, and that it replaces the dual drive mags for two separately driven ones. Definitely worth doing on the Navajo, not so sure about benefits for the Chieftain. Colemill also replace the prop sync with a better unit. I think there's a downside though. I've seen frequent cracks on the 4 blade prop spinner, always at the corner screw holes. I think it's a design flaw, with insufficient metal. There's an SB or STC to add washers to attempt to correct this but I've still seen cracks develop.

On the Navajo the increased HP is great, especially for the 1-inop case. I had an inflight shutdown in a Panther -325 + VGs with less than an hour fuel burn from MTOW. The plane comfortably cruised home at 6000' / Vyse+10 to 15 / 75% power / 1 cowl open. The increased cruise in normal ops is good, although I nearly always run this plane LOP at 60-65% which gives 27-28gph @ 170kt in the cruise. This one even has Piper POH leaning instruction for LOP, including a procedure to get LOP if the EGT limit is reached before LOP is achieved - and that's as equipped from the factory. I demo'd to the owner about the LOP fuel savings nearly 8 or 9 years ago to show the benefits and support my recommendation to fit an EDM - which he did at the next annual - and it's been run LOP ever since the EDM was fitted (with an occasional 'go fast, burn fuel' instruction when the owners are in a rush).

On the -350, I'm not so convinced of the benefit. No change in HP, and too hard to tell if the 4 blade props make much of a difference. I'd have to compare the same airframe pre- & post-modification to tell. Maybe a slight change in handling from the winglets but I would find it hard to justify the $$$.

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BLR's VG kit to increase MTOW. Well worth it. It adds between 200 & 340lb to the MTOW. Turns a so-so payload vs range aircraft into one that is quite useable.

Interestingly, the BLR VG kit specifies a lower climb MP (35") for a Panther than Colemill specify for the 'stock' Panther (38") even though the VG STC doesn't modify the engines in any way. I was curious so I phoned BLR and spoke with a gentleman there who, in turn, contacted the engineer who was responsible for the change. I was told that new noise limit rules took effect between Colemill's Panther STC, and their VG STC for the Panther. End result a slightly lower climb MP to meet noise limits.

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There is also an aftermarket aircon available that replaces the partition behind the pilot with an aircon outlet + an electrical driven compressor in the tail. This has limited outlets (1 x head high blowing into the cabin, a similar one blowing onto the pilot's head, and one onto the co-pilot. The aftermarket one's advantage is that you can use a GPU to run the aircon on the ground while waiting for pax.
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Nosegear scissor link quick disconnect. Costs about $1100 and is cheap insurance if your PA31 gets towed a lot eg in & out of a hangar. I've seen many PA31s with a cracked trunnion thanks to exceeding the tow turn limit. The quick disconnect allows the nose wheel to turn 360 deg without affecting the trunnion.
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There is a belly gear door removal STC that elimates servicing & rigging issues with the belly gear doors. Never flown a PA31 with the mod, but have read of one operator's satisfaction with it.
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Crew door. Very useful if you have both aft row seats occupied. It's bloody awkward to squeeze half into the aisle, and half between the LH seat pax and the next row so you can reach to close the cabin door. The catch with the crew door is that it adds a bit of weight, and is prone to leak if the seal isn't kept in good condition. If it leaks then water will flown down into the CB panel.

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Engine data monitor

As far as I'm concerned these should be standard on every piston aircraft. Or, at least, high performance types. Even though a Panther -325 I manage has LOP instructions in the factory POH using the original single point EGT, I'm not prepared to run LOP without being able to determine all CHTs, EGTs & %#$@.

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Avionics etc:
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If your Navajo has a KFC200 AP and is a 1980 or newer model you have a potentially expensive item. The 1980+ model requires an accelerometer be included in the autopilot power circuit. It is there to trip off the AP if it senses too great a +ve or +ve 'g'. Honeywell no longer make this unit, nor is there an aftermarket replacement (that we've been able to find). We sent a couple to Honeywell - who would only test, and not repair them. They offered to build one to order - for only $20,000! You're stuck with trying to find a serviceable used part somewhere which isn't very common. For a few AMUs more you could stick an Stec 55 in (not that I like that AP but it's about the cheapest one out there), only it would also require panel surgery because it doesn't fit in the original pedestal AP position and requires an external switch to retain FD functionality.

To add to the frustration, a 1979 Navajo with the same KFC200 *didn't* require the accelerometer. We even looked at the possibility of recertifying the AP in the 1980 Navajo based on the older one's fit. No way, no how was the response.

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Cabin furnishings/options:

The -310 & 325 can seat up to 8 occupants. Usually crew (duh), a club 4, and then one or two seats at the door row (R4). The RH R4 seat can be a potty seat (facing forward if two R4 seats, or facing the door if a single R4 seat ie 7 seats total). Often the 7 seat incl. potty interior will have a drinks/amenities cabinet that is also a bulkhead between the potty seat & the aft baggage area.

Speaking of the aft baggage area, I strongly recommend you make sure you have tie-down straps for any baggage you put there. That area can take up to 200lb of stuff. I'm not keen on having 200lb of stuff hurtle towards me if I have a sudden stop...

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Flying it:

Controls are heavy, including taxiing. Think 'pickup truck without power steering', and not 'sports car'. Many people I've seen who are new to it tend to hold onto the column as if it's hammer with resultant poor flight path accuracy, because of the heavy-ish controls. The key is to trim. It's very stable and easy to fly an approach. Get it configured & trimmed correctly and you don't have to do much work to stay on the GS. In the Panther -325 I arrive at the GS intercept trimmed with 15deg flap and 25"/2300rpm. Just below the GS I extend gear & 25deg flap and....that's it! It very nearly follows the GS on its own.

For the arrival I descend at cruise power. If LOP I don't touch the mixture until pre-landing checks unless it needs slight enriching for smoothness. If ROP then I enrichen on the way down to maintain cruise EGT. I start reducing power 'x' minutes prior to FAF/turning base/equivalent position. That 'x' is easy to work out:

Set MP to equal expected approach MP + minutes to go to FAF eg expect 25" approach MP & cruise at 33"MP. Maintain 33" during the descent. At 7 mins ETI to FAF set 32"MP, at 6 mins set 31" and so on. By the time you get within a few inches MP of approach power speed will be comfortably under flap limit speed and you can extend 15 deg flap. For me that's usually after the last power reduction (to set 25"MP) but can be earlier if needed.

No need to be pedantic about the 1" thing. Approximately is fine. If you're busy then make the power reduction 2" or so. Eventually the minutes to go will count down to the lower MP.

By the time I get it trimmed & go full rich/pumps on/main tanks I'm at the FAF and ready to drop gear then 25 flap - all comfortably under gear limit speed. It makes it really easy to never be hot/high struggling to get the flap & gear out. I never have to think about where in the arrival I am for power setting, just look at minutes to go. This also works in the low gear speed models (23" FAF used to work well in a '74 Chieftain with a 130 kt gear limit that I used to fly)

You will have to positively rotate for take-off, or the plane will try to complete the journey by road.

Fuel system management is easy: Inboard/mains for take-off & landing. Outboard/auxs in the cruise, although I tend to select them once in the cruise climb on departure. If you're doing a lot of short hops it's easy to run short in the mains. X-feed is for emergency use only.

It's a pressure x-feed design so selecting/deselecting x-feed is always the same process: Select the new source, switch on the pump for that source, switch on(or off) x-feed, switch off the old source, switch off the old source pump.