24 Apr 2024, 10:14 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 27 Jul 2019, 09:01 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23622 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: CJ2 with an engine program will retain its value as long as its on the program. CJ2s are depreciating as they get old, like anything else, regardless of an engine program. A fair number are under $2.5M right now. 5 years ago, it was unusual to see one under $3.5M. Example: https://www.controller.com/listings/air ... tation-cj2At 3150 hours, the engine program has cost the owners about $1M so far in present day dollars. That hasn't prevented a loss of about $1M in value in the last 5 years. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 27 Jul 2019, 13:04 |
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Joined: 09/11/09 Posts: 5301 Post Likes: +4213 Company: Looking Location: Tulsa, Ok
Aircraft: Baron/Bonanza
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Username Protected wrote: Since there are some 501 owners watching this thread, I’m trying to source some inner window panes for my plane outside of Textron. Any ideas? LP Aero, maybe?
_________________ I don't have a problem with anger, I have a problem with idiots.
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 27 Jul 2019, 14:16 |
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Joined: 01/02/12 Posts: 334 Post Likes: +100
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Have you called Perkins for the window?
Steve
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 05 Aug 2019, 06:48 |
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Joined: 08/05/11 Posts: 5303 Post Likes: +2423
Aircraft: BE-55
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Username Protected wrote: I have not been in a 501. How large is the pilot seat? Can a taller pilot be comfortable? I am coming from a PA46 which isn’t vary large up front.
Looking at some of the Stallion 501
Thanks Mike I’m 6’3. It’s roomy enough. Far better then some.
_________________ “ Embrace the Suck”
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 05 Aug 2019, 07:42 |
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Joined: 05/05/09 Posts: 4966 Post Likes: +4797
Aircraft: G44, C501, C55, R66
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Username Protected wrote: I have not been in a 501. How large is the pilot seat? Can a taller pilot be comfortable? I am coming from a PA46 which isn’t vary large up front.
Looking at some of the Stallion 501
Thanks Mike It has been hashed out before but I don't recommend the Stallion for lots of reasons. Mainly, it doesn't go that much faster or burn that much less fuel to justify the extra coinage. The engine program wipes out any fuel savings too and the cap costs are much higher.
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 05 Aug 2019, 08:09 |
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Joined: 10/16/13 Posts: 64 Post Likes: +138 Company: Advantage Technologies Location: Franklin, TN
Aircraft: Citation 510 Mustang
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Username Protected wrote: I have not been in a 501. How large is the pilot seat? Can a taller pilot be comfortable? I am coming from a PA46 which isn’t vary large up front.
Looking at some of the Stallion 501
Thanks Mike It has been hashed out before but I don't recommend the Stallion for lots of reasons. Mainly, it doesn't go that much faster or burn that much less fuel to justify the extra coinage. The engine program wipes out any fuel savings too and the cap costs are much higher.
Agreed on this. The math can be difficult on the Stallion unless you snag one at a large discount. If you're coming out of a Meridian (as I did), and you fly close to 200 hours / year and don't need the extra seats - take a hard look at a Mustang. Cap cost will be similar to a G1000 Meridian, but the fuel burn savings will more than cover your cap ex difference between that and a legacy Citation. For me, it made all the difference. Then you're in a modern platform, G1000nxi, programs, etc etc etc... Just something additional to consider.
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 05 Aug 2019, 09:56 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23622 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: It has been hashed out before but I don't recommend the Stallion for lots of reasons. Mainly, it doesn't go that much faster or burn that much less fuel to justify the extra coinage. The engine program wipes out any fuel savings too and the cap costs are much higher. Be sure to check out the PW615F engine program costs before going Mustang. It is surprisingly costly in present times, pretty much right there with the FJ44-2A on the Stallion/Eagle II (~$160/hour/engine for ESP Gold, a little less for Power Advantage+, numbers taken from posts on CJP). The burner cans aren't making HSI intervals, and there are other issues which have taken the shine off what should be a small economical engine. When you run the economic analysis, the Stallion does make sense, IMO. It goes faster, it goes higher, it goes further, it carries more, and it burns less fuel than a stock 501. The extra speed means the airframe costs are lower, too, not just engine and fuel, and this becomes more of a factor when you face headwinds, which is most of the time. The JT15D-1 is not free to maintain, either, so you can't compare program costs to no costs for engine use. The Mustang is the odd duck in the Cessna jet line. Shares almost nothing in common with the legacy or the CJ series, has a unique type rating, etc. A bit wheezy in hot conditions. It is the only Cessna jet with through the panel yoke which makes it one of the more comfortable jets for the owner pilot. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 05 Aug 2019, 10:50 |
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Joined: 03/18/09 Posts: 1144 Post Likes: +203 Company: Elemental - Pipistrel Location: KHCR
Aircraft: Citation CJ2+
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Username Protected wrote: The Mustang is the odd duck in the Cessna jet line. Shares almost nothing in common with the legacy or the CJ series, has a unique type rating, etc. A bit wheezy in hot conditions.
It is the only Cessna jet with through the panel yoke which makes it one of the more comfortable jets for the owner pilot.
Mike C. The mustang actually shares quite a bit with the CJ4 - which shares very little with the rest of the 525 line. Agreed on the hot conditions analysis, but it still performs - just don't expect FL410. It is the most comfortable cockpit - so much nicer. -Jason
_________________ -- Jason Talley Pipistrel Distributor http://www.elemental.aero
CJ2+ 7GCBC A-1C Husky
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 05 Aug 2019, 12:09 |
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Joined: 05/29/13 Posts: 13587 Post Likes: +10972 Company: Easy Ice, LLC Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
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I am typed in all three “small tube” Citations. Mustang is my fav for all but long flights. Roomie, good environmentals, great integrated panel, FADEC, fuel burn, capex etc. love the 510.
A similar 500 series capexwise would be a C560 with txi and gtn. Longer legs, faster, more payload much higher fuel burn but also older, no Vnav, no fadec.
The CJ2+ would be great but capex is 2x
I wouldn’t touch a Sierra product at this point.
_________________ Mark Hangen Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson) Power of the Turbine "Jet Elite"
Last edited on 05 Aug 2019, 12:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 05 Aug 2019, 12:14 |
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Joined: 10/27/10 Posts: 10861 Post Likes: +6885 Location: Cambridge, MA (KLWM)
Aircraft: 1997 A36TN
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Username Protected wrote: I am typed in all three “small tube” Citations. Mustang is my fav for all but long flights. Roomie, good environmentalists, great integrated panel, FADEC, fuel burn, capex etc. love the 510. That might be taking it a bit far...
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 05 Aug 2019, 15:13 |
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Joined: 01/02/12 Posts: 334 Post Likes: +100
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Sierra was sold to Innova who went bankrupt, I don't believe there is any real support for all of their modifications. I believe their original owner is trying to buy back or get back the STCs currently.
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