18 Apr 2024, 22:26 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 17 Jun 2021, 14:47 |
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Joined: 11/06/20 Posts: 1299 Post Likes: +1290 Location: Tulsa, OK - KRVS
Aircraft: C501SP
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Username Protected wrote: I wonder how well upset training in an L-39 translates to flying a 501. I've heard good things about Arizona Type Ratings. Not sure if this is a sim or a real plane, but looks like a fairly unusual attitude: https://youtu.be/VHenRtxYzPs&t=3m30sPer the website, they limit the control surfaces/responsiveness to emulate the aircraft you are intending to fly. If anyone has been there and has a pirep I would love to hear it. As for your picture, I am pretty sure that is in a sim. I cannot imagine anyone rolling an actual Citation like that for training purposes.
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 17 Jun 2021, 18:00 |
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Joined: 11/06/20 Posts: 1299 Post Likes: +1290 Location: Tulsa, OK - KRVS
Aircraft: C501SP
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Excellent Mike! I hope to be joining you soon. I love the idea of an FJ44 501 but I don't think I will fly enough to satisfy the Williams Mafia.
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Username Protected
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 18 Jun 2021, 03:09 |
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Joined: 04/24/18 Posts: 727 Post Likes: +340 Location: NYC
Aircraft: ISP Eagle II SR22 g2
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Username Protected wrote: I think the best would be a combo. Some sim but some in your aircraft. Insurance does this with sim type rating, mentoring in aircraft. Quote: I also think they make the sim training requirement way too long. I agree. I felt I could have done the CE-500 type course in almost half the days allotted. They allocate time based on the lowest performing student, apparently. Mike C.
How many days did you spend?
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 18 Jun 2021, 03:40 |
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Joined: 04/24/18 Posts: 727 Post Likes: +340 Location: NYC
Aircraft: ISP Eagle II SR22 g2
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Username Protected wrote: I have in contract a 501SP Eagle II. Sold my 421 and really looking forward to the process of getting to be a jet pilot.
While I was researching this aircraft model again I went back thru this entire thread. Half way thru the thread I see myself from 2018 commenting on how great an Eagle II looks for me and my missions. But I was just not ready as a pilot. I did not have my MEL or any jet time. Since that post in 2018 I bought the 421 and got 400 hours in her. I know I am still a rookie at 1500TT and only 350 multi but I feel much more prepared than I was back in 2018. Great that the 2021 version of me is able to do what the 2018 version wanted to do back then. LOL
It's cool to see this thread come full circle for me. Lots of hours researching and considering what I want to do compared to what I should do.
Thanks to Michael T for not only starting this thread but helping me find the perfect 501SP for me.
Mike Congrats! These planes are a blast. Awesome utility!
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 18 Jun 2021, 03:55 |
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Joined: 02/15/21 Posts: 2530 Post Likes: +1254
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Username Protected wrote: I wonder how well upset training in an L-39 translates to flying a 501. I've heard good things about Arizona Type Ratings. Not sure if this is a sim or a real plane, but looks like a fairly unusual attitude: https://youtu.be/VHenRtxYzPs&t=3m30sPer the website, they limit the control surfaces/responsiveness to emulate the aircraft you are intending to fly. If anyone has been there and has a pirep I would love to hear it. As for your picture, I am pretty sure that is in a sim. I cannot imagine anyone rolling an actual Citation like that for training purposes. Chris, I'm not so sure it's a sim. Can a sim mimic the slip/skid ball the way it's moving in the video on the pilot's ADI while he is swerving a bit on the takeoff roll? Is this a full-motion sim? Also, look at the way the reflections change on the glass of some of the instruments.
_________________ Aviate, Navigate, Communicate, Administrate, Litigate.
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 18 Jun 2021, 08:20 |
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Joined: 12/25/12 Posts: 3723 Post Likes: +3691 Location: KRHV San Jose, CA
Aircraft: A36, R44, C525
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Username Protected wrote: I have in contract a 501SP Eagle II. Sold my 421 and really looking forward to the process of getting to be a jet pilot.
While I was researching this aircraft model again I went back thru this entire thread. Half way thru the thread I see myself from 2018 commenting on how great an Eagle II looks for me and my missions. But I was just not ready as a pilot. I did not have my MEL or any jet time. Since that post in 2018 I bought the 421 and got 400 hours in her. I know I am still a rookie at 1500TT and only 350 multi but I feel much more prepared than I was back in 2018. Great that the 2021 version of me is able to do what the 2018 version wanted to do back then. LOL
It's cool to see this thread come full circle for me. Lots of hours researching and considering what I want to do compared to what I should do.
Thanks to Michael T for not only starting this thread but helping me find the perfect 501SP for me.
Mike Wow you sold your 421 pretty fast. I have to get mine on the market to sell. Now with the CJ I am never using it. Not enough time.
_________________ Rocky Hill
Altitude is Everything.
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 18 Jun 2021, 08:31 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23622 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: How many days did you spend? 13 days. 5 days ground school, 6 days sim, 1 day off, 1 day checkride. We were in a class with 9 students CE-500 initial at FSI Atlanta. They said it was the largest initial class size they have ever had. Sim was scheduled from 0600 to 0000 every day, My sim buddy and I were 2000-0000, so I got 2 hours of PIC, 2 hours of SIC every sim day. I felt like I could have done ground school and sim on the same days, and done more sim time each day. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 18 Jun 2021, 15:57 |
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Joined: 09/12/20 Posts: 9 Post Likes: +1
Aircraft: CE-501
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Username Protected wrote: Chris
I know we all calculate and justify in different ways. But I think the program is a benefit. I already pay a lot in engine maintenance and annual inspections on a twin piston. If one goes I am out $100k. With Williams I have insurance that if there is a major failure I am covered. So I look at it as a annual maintenance cost. Not a hourly cost. It’s just costing me $45k a year for engine maintenance and warranty. It’s a lot of money but way easier to stomach than a major failure or a plane that is ran out and worth nothing. It’s actually comforting to not worry about engine cost.
Mike That's exactly what they want you to think! The problem is that they amortize the cost of a very expensive overhaul across the hours until TBO. Alternatively, you could fly a slightly more thirsty, and slightly slower JT15D plane and buy a used engine for 100-120/hour remaining on the engine. That's about the same or less than TAP Blue and puts the time value of money in your favor. It's this dynamic that makes the legacy Citations a bit of an arbitrage.
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 18 Jun 2021, 16:14 |
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Joined: 02/15/21 Posts: 2530 Post Likes: +1254
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Username Protected wrote: Chris
I know we all calculate and justify in different ways. But I think the program is a benefit. I already pay a lot in engine maintenance and annual inspections on a twin piston. If one goes I am out $100k. With Williams I have insurance that if there is a major failure I am covered. So I look at it as a annual maintenance cost. Not a hourly cost. It’s just costing me $45k a year for engine maintenance and warranty. It’s a lot of money but way easier to stomach than a major failure or a plane that is ran out and worth nothing. It’s actually comforting to not worry about engine cost.
Mike That's exactly what they want you to think! The problem is that they amortize the cost of a very expensive overhaul across the hours until TBO. Alternatively, you could fly a slightly more thirsty, and slightly slower JT15D plane and buy a used engine for 100-120/hour remaining on the engine. That's about the same or less than TAP Blue and puts the time value of money in your favor. It's this dynamic that makes the legacy Citations a bit of an arbitrage. Yeah, but who wouldn't want the extra performance of those FJ44's if you could afford it...
_________________ Aviate, Navigate, Communicate, Administrate, Litigate.
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 18 Jun 2021, 16:24 |
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Joined: 09/12/20 Posts: 9 Post Likes: +1
Aircraft: CE-501
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Username Protected wrote: Yeah, but who wouldn't want the extra performance of those FJ44's if you could afford it...
[/quote] For sure, would love a CJ4+ if money was no issue!
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 18 Jun 2021, 16:32 |
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Joined: 04/27/10 Posts: 1875 Post Likes: +828 Location: KFFZ & KGRR
Aircraft: BE36, CE501
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Username Protected wrote: I wonder how well upset training in an L-39 translates to flying a 501. I've heard good things about Arizona Type Ratings. Not sure if this is a sim or a real plane, but looks like a fairly unusual attitude: https://youtu.be/VHenRtxYzPs&t=3m30sPer the website, they limit the control surfaces/responsiveness to emulate the aircraft you are intending to fly. If anyone has been there and has a pirep I would love to hear it. As for your picture, I am pretty sure that is in a sim. I cannot imagine anyone rolling an actual Citation like that for training purposes. That’s not a sim.
_________________ Last 60 mos: CL65 type rating, flew 121, CE680, CE525S, and CE500 type ratings.
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