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28 Mar 2024, 09:23 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 09 Aug 2021, 19:59 
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Aircraft: ISP Eagle II SR22 g2
Username Protected wrote:

Does the altitude matter? I’m scheduled for a short repo flight tomorrow. Probably at 5-7k feet. I’ll report back the ff and aoa. But the ff is probably the variable as I won’t be comfortable beyond a .6 or so aoa.

In theory the altitude shouldn't matter. To properly test if lowest fuel flow happens at 0.6, it will be necessary to fly at more than 0.6 (say 0.65) to see if fuel flow increases. But of course don't do it if you think it's not safe.

Also of course test at 0.55 to see if fuel flow increases compared to 0.6.

However, I just want to confirm you have the standard AOA gauge that claims to show best L/D at a reading of 0.6?

I think it’s basic physics that as I reduce ff, the aoa will increase. The only question imho is will I be able to hold altitude at .6+ without adding back some power aka riding the backside of the power curve.
And I have the regular round gauge aoa indicator.

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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 09 Aug 2021, 20:00 
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Username Protected wrote:
shoot, I wanna hear about the repo flight.


And so you shall my dear friend, and so you shall..


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 09 Aug 2021, 20:18 
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Joined: 02/15/21
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Username Protected wrote:
The FAA sent a letter to ALL CE500 type sim schools telling them that and inital type
for the C500 would include the SIC required

This is getting real interesting. Would like to see a copy of that letter.

It's also problematic, as I was thinking of doing the CE500 type rating in the sim and then doing 25 hours SOE before having an unrestricted rating. Now it looks like I'll have to do 25 hours SOE and then take a $econd checkride to get the SIC lifted.

Doing the rating in a real plane sounds better and better. But as we've heard, even that can end up with a SIC Required.

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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 09 Aug 2021, 22:41 
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Joined: 11/06/20
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Location: Tulsa, OK - KRVS
Aircraft: C501SP
Username Protected wrote:
What gives?
What is the process to get an unrestricted CE500 type rating?

If you read all the way through this thread you will find a bit of discussion on that. A couple of folks did in-airplane and still got SIC required.

I also would find that letter interesting. I don't see where in the regs they came to that conclusion. SOE required when done in a sim, yes, but if you do the checkride SP in an SP sim, you should get an SP rating. That's what it says in the regs. There is no room for judgement - either you perform to the standards or not.

I am doing mine in-airplane the 3rd week of October so can't add any additional info until then.


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2021, 07:45 
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Joined: 12/31/17
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Location: KADS
Aircraft: C560, C340
Anybody know of a sim setup as a 501 or 551? I don't. Yes I know there is only a paper difference.


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2021, 08:47 
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Username Protected wrote:
Anybody know of a sim setup as a 501 or 551? I don't. Yes I know there is only a paper difference.

So is that the reason for the FAA's SIC-Required directive?

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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2021, 08:52 
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Joined: 12/03/14
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
Anybody know of a sim setup as a 501 or 551? I don't. Yes I know there is only a paper difference.
So is that the reason for the FAA's SIC-Required directive?

No.

All the legacy Citations are very similar, 501SP to 560, so this isn't an issue.

I typed in a 550 sim and now fly a 560. A brief differences class was all that was required.

Mike C.
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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2021, 10:42 
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Joined: 01/17/21
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Aircraft: C550
Mike C.
I see your MU2 is for sale. Your Citation must be is reliable enough for your missions finally.


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2021, 12:06 
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Joined: 11/06/20
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Location: Tulsa, OK - KRVS
Aircraft: C501SP
Username Protected wrote:
So is that the reason for the FAA's SIC-Required directive?

No.

All the legacy Citations are very similar, 501SP to 560, so this isn't an issue.

I typed in a 550 sim and now fly a 560. A brief differences class was all that was required.

Mike C.

Hi Mike,

You are operating the SPE world, not the factory SP world. The SP regs state that in order to avoid the SIC required, the checkride must be passed SP (DPE acting only as examiner, not crew) AND in an SP aircraft (or I assume, sim). The latter part could be the wrinkle they are using to mark SIC required when doing a sim initial. The sim may not be a 501SP/551SP sim and so it does not qualify as SP?

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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2021, 12:07 
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Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
I see your MU2 is for sale. Your Citation must be is reliable enough for your missions finally.

Well, let's hope so.

I'm down to the "irritating little problems" stage, and I am attacking them one by one.

It is so satisfying to have a nagging little problem, figure out what it is, and deal with it permanently. I'm treating each one as a puzzle to be solved. It is amazing how much money you can save by doing some detective work before you bring it to the shop. For example, I don't say "the brakes sometimes don't work". I instead say "replace pressure switch S168 and S169". I can say that because I review the manuals and diagrams, find ways to test the system using video or logging instruments, and then I localize the fault. Brakes now work perfectly.

I'm sure some of these problems were just lived with by the past owner, like the brakes. But now I know I can land the plane without brakes and have done so a few times.

The V can be an amazing short field airplane. I was heavy at 15,000 lbs, almost max landing weight, on a hot day, and landed at KDCY with a 4600 ft runway. I could have easily stopped in half that. I probably could have stopped without brakes in that distance.

Come early Sept, I will be SPE qualified, I will have flown off my mentoring hours, and I will have fixed a few more bugs. So that's when the real use begins. I am making useful trips in the plane presently when I can get myself, mentor, plane, and purpose all to line up.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2021, 13:04 
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Joined: 08/03/10
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Company: D&M Leasing Houston
Location: Katy, TX (KTME)
Aircraft: CitationV/C180
I did my SPE check ride a couple of weeks ago. Two days before I did my commercial check ride so I am legal now in the V single pilot. I like the FMS and the avionics that are in the plane but its a lot single pilot especially in weather, IMC or emergencies. I take it to Jet Tech next week and look forward to that project being completed. In the meantime I got a family trip to Florida in. Lots of room and great performance. It beats book numbers on every flight so far.

Tried to post pictures but they are all sideways and my OCD just won’t me do that…


Last edited on 10 Aug 2021, 13:10, edited 6 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2021, 13:04 
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Joined: 03/01/14
Posts: 2126
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Location: 0TX0 Granbury TX
Aircraft: T-210M Aeronca 7AC
All this maintenance experience comes from owning a 170 or 210?


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2021, 13:05 
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That's where I'm at just a few little nit picking items left to fix.


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2021, 02:19 
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Joined: 12/18/12
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Location: Europe
Aircraft: Aerostar 600A
Heads Up: There's a very nice 501SP for sale in France, just 20 minutes from my base, ask is $180K

It's FFA registered ( N33WW ) and is reported airworthy, details are here : https://www.planecheck.com?ent=da&id=51721

I can perform pre-buy survey, etc. if interest.

No affiliation with seller although I've seen the plane.

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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2021, 08:20 
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Joined: 12/03/14
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
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Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
Heads Up: There's a very nice 501SP for sale in France, just 20 minutes from my base, ask is $180K

Engines are run out.

Value proposition would be to buy it cheap and do hots only, fly past TBO, as a part 91 operator.

Mike C.

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