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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2021, 14:17 
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It doesn't cost Garmin a penny more to make a gray bezel, of course.

Mike C.


What Garmin is really charging extra for is because they can.

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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2021, 16:17 
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It’s all fun and games with digital panels and backups until the next big solar flare while you are shooting an approach in IMC.

Sort of tongue in cheek but I do wonder what happens if an event like this occurs again in our digital world

My guess is my Garmin panel would not react well to this.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carringto ... %80%931867).&text=The%20storm%20caused%20strong%20auroral,is%20SOL1859%2D09%2D01.


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2021, 16:47 
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Location: Tulsa, OK - KRVS
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Username Protected wrote:
It’s all fun and games with digital panels and backups until the next big solar flare while you are shooting an approach in IMC.

Sort of tongue in cheek but I do wonder what happens if an event like this occurs again in our digital world

My guess is my Garmin panel would not react well to this.

Like everything else, it involves a cost/benefit/risk analysis. We just read that Mike C has been trying to protect against this without success.

Personally, I think I'm taking on more risk w/ the increased radiation over time by flying higher w/ minimal shielding than I am of a solar flare that happens to occur when I'm just inside the FAF.

But seriously, they are getting pretty good at predicting solar activity. If you are truly worried about such a thing you could just avoid flying during solar storms.

Of course, there could be a man-made EMP that could be detonated w/o warning. Or Ligado or the govt could jam your GPS....


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2021, 17:02 
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Location: KEHR
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That's what I did in my TBM and for that very reason. The SAM has a long history of reliability, and even though I like the GI275 I really wanted something with a proven history.

The SAM was an option for me as well, I went with the GI 275.

There are two reasons to choose the SAM. It is an entirely different make and design than the Garmin and it can include the SSEC chart (RVSM error chart) so the altitude is correct at high altitudes. The GI 275 doesn't have SSEC capability.

But there are multiple reasons to choose the GI 275. It has heading, has GPS, can display nav indications, has synth viz, and a host of other features. You can set altitude, speed, and heading bugs. I thought it also looks nicer and fits in the panel nicer.

Also, the symbology and operating logic are going to be more closely aligned with the PFD making using the GI 275 easier when you do end up needing it. The GI 275 also updates by SYNC from the primary displays, so little to no effort to keep it updated.

So I went with the GI 275. I'm happy I did.

Oh, it is also a LOT cheaper, perhaps enough for me to install a mechanical gyro some day.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2021, 17:16 
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Joined: 08/24/13
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Location: KSMQ New Jersey
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Username Protected wrote:
That's what I did in my TBM and for that very reason. The SAM has a long history of reliability, and even though I like the GI275 I really wanted something with a proven history.

The SAM was an option for me as well, I went with the GI 275.

There are two reasons to choose the SAM. It is an entirely different make and design than the Garmin and it can include the SSEC chart (RVSM error chart) so the altitude is correct at high altitudes. The GI 275 doesn't have SSEC capability.

But there are multiple reasons to choose the GI 275. It has heading, has GPS, can display nav indications, has synth viz, and a host of other features. You can set altitude, speed, and heading bugs. I thought it also looks nicer and fits in the panel nicer.

Also, the symbology and operating logic are going to be more closely aligned with the PFD making using the GI 275 easier when you do end up needing it. The GI 275 also updates by SYNC from the primary displays, so little to no effort to keep it updated.

So I went with the GI 275. I'm happy I did.

Oh, it is also a LOT cheaper, perhaps enough for me to install a mechanical gyro some day.

Mike C.


Agree with all the above, but I found a lightly used MD302 and magnetometer for a lot less than the $9495 Class III GI275 package.

I'll be adding the HSI GI275 non-AHRS version which is certified to take the heading label from the MD302 (non-AHRS does not have the Class III limitation so it is much cheaper).

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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 24 Jul 2021, 00:17 
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Joined: 11/19/15
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Company: Centurion LV and Eleusis
Location: Draper UT KPVU-KVNY
Aircraft: N45AF 501sp Eagle II
Tarver and I flew my new to me Eagle II from Florida back to Utah.

Man this plane has legs. Made it direct non stop in 4:45 1832 statute miles. Was up high so gave up some speed for range but that was impressive.

The plane is so quite and smooth. We did a short trip to get cheap fuel in the morning and it was climbing out at 5000fpm super light but it was a rocket ship.

Really happy with the plane and Tarver was amazing to work with. Highly recommend him if you are looking for a legacy Citation.


Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 24 Jul 2021, 02:46 
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Username Protected wrote:
Tarver and I flew my new to me Eagle II from Florida back to Utah.

Man this plane has legs. Made it direct non stop in 4:45 1832 statute miles. Was up high so gave up some speed for range but that was impressive.

The plane is so quite and smooth. We did a short trip to get cheap fuel in the morning and it was climbing out at 5000fpm super light but it was a rocket ship.

Really happy with the plane and Tarver was amazing to work with. Highly recommend him if you are looking for a legacy Citation.


Mike

Congrats, Mike! Can we see a panel shot?

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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 24 Jul 2021, 09:31 
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Joined: 01/01/10
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Congrats. Nice looking Citation

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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 24 Jul 2021, 09:44 
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Company: Malco Power Design
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Aircraft: 1976 Baron 58
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In a military airplane, or any of my wiring projects, you’ll find lace cord as opposed to zip ties. I’m not anti zip ties but lace cord makes for a nice installation. When you stick you arms back into that hole you won’t get lacerations from those sharp tag ends.


That happens because people don’t use the proper tools to cut them. It should be done with either a tie wrap gun (which also pulls them to the proper tension) or a set of flush cut pliers. Using regular dikes is a recipe for cut up arms for the guy behind you.

I hate to say it but I’m really not a fan of lacing cord. It makes mod work a pain for the guy behind you and makes it just too tempting to add wires in to the bundles without cutting all of the existing lacing out so you end up with multiple layers of stuff tied together which really takes work when you do need to pull something out of the core bundle.


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 24 Jul 2021, 12:33 
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Company: Centurion LV and Eleusis
Location: Draper UT KPVU-KVNY
Aircraft: N45AF 501sp Eagle II
Mike[/quote]
Congrats, Mike! Can we see a panel shot?[/quote]

Here is a pic of the panel.

We lost pilot side Vertical gyro that powers the Pilot ADI on climb out. :scratch:

Auto Pilot handed us the plane and it took a bit to figure out what was up. Tarver took the controls and flew from his side. But if it was just me and I was new to the plane I would have struggled. It took a bit for the pilot side ADI to flag so it wasn’t as obvious as you would think. Fortunately I had a proficient guy with me. I can easily see how it could have gone bad fast. The backup AI is on the co pilot side and was working fine. And the Co Pilot ADI was fine.

I can see how it could go bad fast during that time you are trying to figure out what just happened. If you were task saturated you might not even know the AP failed right away.


Anyway need a good backup on the pilot side for sure. I rarely fly with anyone in the right seat.

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 24 Jul 2021, 14:29 
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Location: Tulsa, OK - KRVS
Aircraft: C501SP
Hi Michael,

Thanks for the post! Always a few things to debug on these old birds. I'm working through a few small things myself. We did our first mission/training trip down to the beach a few days ago. Took my family of 4, another family of 4, plus my instructor. Everyone was happy as a clam in the back, gabbing away, no headsets. Only my son was upset as he likes to sit up front with me in the Cirrus. He wants me to run a headset jack into the cabin so he can at least listen to ATC. 1:40 vs 3:30 in the Cirrus. Made a day trip quite reasonable.

Your failure was interesting. I am wondering if that could have been a contributing factor to the Nashville 501 crash? Pilot's ADI fails but doesn't flag, AP kicks off, pilot is in the soup so doesn't have a reference that his ADI is going wonky. As it spins down it gives bad info, pilot follows the bad guidance into the ground?


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 24 Jul 2021, 15:15 
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Username Protected wrote:
Here is a pic of the panel.

We lost pilot side Vertical gyro that powers the Pilot ADI on climb out. :scratch:

Auto Pilot handed us the plane and it took a bit to figure out what was up. Tarver took the controls and flew from his side. But if it was just me and I was new to the plane I would have struggled. It took a bit for the pilot side ADI to flag so it wasn’t as obvious as you would think. Fortunately I had a proficient guy with me. I can easily see how it could have gone bad fast. The backup AI is on the co pilot side and was working fine. And the Co Pilot ADI was fine.

I can see how it could go bad fast during that time you are trying to figure out what just happened. If you were task saturated you might not even know the AP failed right away.


Anyway need a good backup on the pilot side for sure. I rarely fly with anyone in the right seat.

Mike

Yikes, pretty sobering.

Looks like both pilot and co-pilot have AC-powered ADI's? And how is that backup AI on the co-pilot's side powered? It also looks electric.

I was planning to do my MEI rating here in Seattle during my summer vacation (I had 40 days available), but ran into an unexpected problem. As I haven't flown in 30 years, the flight school first wants me to do a flight review and an IFR proficiency check in their single. They say their insurance won't let me sit in their twin as a student unless I'm current. Odd, as I thought the currency would be taken care of during the MEI training/check ride. All of this will take more time than I have left during my vacation.

Another insurance nightmare!

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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 24 Jul 2021, 15:27 
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Michael, did the voice annunciator say “autopilot” when it kicked off?


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 24 Jul 2021, 16:39 
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Username Protected wrote:
Looks like both pilot and co-pilot have AC-powered ADI's? And how is that backup AI on the co-pilot's side powered? It also looks electric.


It is powered by a dedicated battery pack


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 24 Jul 2021, 17:33 
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Joined: 12/25/12
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Location: KRHV San Jose, CA
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Username Protected wrote:
Tarver and I flew my new to me Eagle II from Florida back to Utah.

Man this plane has legs. Made it direct non stop in 4:45 1832 statute miles. Was up high so gave up some speed for range but that was impressive.

The plane is so quite and smooth. We did a short trip to get cheap fuel in the morning and it was climbing out at 5000fpm super light but it was a rocket ship.

Really happy with the plane and Tarver was amazing to work with. Highly recommend him if you are looking for a legacy Citation.


Mike


Congratulations, your hooked now! :). Only had mine for six months now and they are real easy to get used to.

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