18 Apr 2024, 08:08 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 11 Oct 2021, 20:04 |
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Joined: 05/05/09 Posts: 4958 Post Likes: +4796
Aircraft: G44, C501, C55, R66
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Username Protected wrote: Looks like a nice ride, is that your icon? That’s my partner’s. It flies nice but needs a 915
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 14 Oct 2021, 12:32 |
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Joined: 11/16/16 Posts: 56 Post Likes: +14 Location: Chicago, IL
Aircraft: PA-31 Navajo
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Beautiful job on the 501 Mike! I’m curious why you wouldn’t go with a Citation II if you wanted this many seats? Are the operating costs that much different? Also do you have all of your Citations under the Cessna LUMP program and how difficult/expensive is it to get on vs Becon? Thanks again for all the posts!
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 14 Oct 2021, 16:46 |
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Joined: 02/15/21 Posts: 2530 Post Likes: +1254
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Username Protected wrote: Beautiful job on the 501 Mike! I’m curious why you wouldn’t go with a Citation II if you wanted this many seats? Are the operating costs that much different? Also do you have all of your Citations under the Cessna LUMP program and how difficult/expensive is it to get on vs Becon? Thanks again for all the posts! Mike can go into detail, but the 501 has the advantage of being lighter and having a shorter wingspan. That means it can legally and physically get into some places the 550 can't. Plus it has turf field capability out of the box, unlike the 550. 550 also cannot be flown single-pilot without the Single Pilot Exemption. I'm still wondering about the SOE requirement if you do the CE500 type rating in a sim. Wonder if you can fly left seat in a 550 with a SPE qualified pilot in the right seat and get your SOE out of the way, or does it have to be in a 501 or 551? Even if you get the SOE satisfied, would you end up with "SIC Required" if you did the SOE in a 550?
_________________ Aviate, Navigate, Communicate, Administrate, Litigate.
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 14 Oct 2021, 17:11 |
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Joined: 03/04/13 Posts: 2586 Post Likes: +1244 Location: Little Rock, Ar
Aircraft: A36 C560 C551 C550S
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I’m not Mike, but I know him. I also own a 501SP and a 551 or IISP. As for turf ops, I don’t know many that need that in a jet. The 550/551 handling is more balanced, in my opinion. If you put 8-10 people in a 501, you’d better be close friends. The 550 is better, but the 560 does that the best in the legacy airplanes. I also operate an S550 and an Ultra. Very low ref speeds.
Robert T
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 14 Oct 2021, 21:21 |
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Joined: 05/05/09 Posts: 4958 Post Likes: +4796
Aircraft: G44, C501, C55, R66
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Username Protected wrote: Beautiful job on the 501 Mike! I’m curious why you wouldn’t go with a Citation II if you wanted this many seats? Are the operating costs that much different? Also do you have all of your Citations under the Cessna LUMP program and how difficult/expensive is it to get on vs Becon? Thanks again for all the posts! Textron LUMP is only a $6000 one time few, much better than Bacon. I've owned all the legacy Citations, the 560 is the best. I enjoy them all. They all cost about the same to own and operate but the 501 is smaller and lighter and serves a purpose. It's a 5 Iron and the 560 is a driver.
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 16 Oct 2021, 16:50 |
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Joined: 02/15/21 Posts: 2530 Post Likes: +1254
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Username Protected wrote: Is the 550 12,500lbs? The 501 is and that puts it under that magic number. Many airports won’t allow over 12,500lb aircraft and many fees go way up if over 12,500lbs
But yes you have to have smaller people to fit a lot in a 501
Another consideration is you can’t get single pilot in a 550 without a lot of jet hours. So for me that took them out of the running.
501 is a good fit for us and our missions. Nothing else was close.
Mike I understand the lightest 550's, SN's 505 and below, have an MTOW of 13,300 lbs. So problem if the runway only allows planes of 12,500 lbs certified MTOW. I don't think they make an exception if you don't actually weigh that much. Also the 550 wingspan is over 50', unlike the 501. Some taxiways are closed to aircraft with a wingspan over 50'. And could be an issue for hangering.
_________________ Aviate, Navigate, Communicate, Administrate, Litigate.
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 09 Dec 2021, 02:21 |
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Joined: 02/15/21 Posts: 2530 Post Likes: +1254
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Sorry if this has been answered somewhere else, but if I get a CE500 type rating in a simulator (not limited to SIC), can I do the 25 hours SOE in a 550 and would that allow me to fly the 501 solo (as far as the FAA is concerned), or does the 25 hours SOE have to be in a 501 or 551?
Also, is liability insurance available month-to-month, or only on a yearly basis?
Thanks.
_________________ Aviate, Navigate, Communicate, Administrate, Litigate.
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 09 Dec 2021, 07:19 |
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Joined: 04/24/18 Posts: 727 Post Likes: +340 Location: NYC
Aircraft: ISP Eagle II SR22 g2
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Username Protected wrote: Sorry if this has been answered somewhere else, but if I get a CE500 type rating in a simulator (not limited to SIC), can I do the 25 hours SOE in a 550 and would that allow me to fly the 501 solo (as far as the FAA is concerned), or does the 25 hours SOE have to be in a 501 or 551?
Also, is liability insurance available month-to-month, or only on a yearly basis?
Thanks. I don't think a ce500 sim exists that you can take a type ride in. Aviation insurance companies generally do annual only, as otherwise they'd be repricing the premiums constantly as you gain experience and ratings. Short premium for the high risk exposure.
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 09 Dec 2021, 09:30 |
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Joined: 04/26/13 Posts: 19900 Post Likes: +19618 Location: Columbus , IN (KBAK)
Aircraft: 1968 Baron D55
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Username Protected wrote: Also, is liability insurance available month-to-month, or only on a yearly basis?
The policy would be annual, but I can't think of a reason why you couldn't add airframe coverage before the policy period ends.
_________________ My last name rhymes with 'geese'.
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 09 Dec 2021, 09:45 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23622 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: I don't think a ce500 sim exists that you can take a type ride in. I got my type rating in the 550 sim at FlightSafety Atlanta. There are other places that have level C or better CE-500 sims which allow you to get your type rating entirely in sim. Insurance usually requires at least 25 hours mentoring, so the SOE requirement in 64.64(g), the SOE, is usually not an extra burden. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 09 Dec 2021, 09:49 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23622 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: Sorry if this has been answered somewhere else, but if I get a CE500 type rating in a simulator (not limited to SIC), can I do the 25 hours SOE in a 550 and would that allow me to fly the 501 solo (as far as the FAA is concerned), or does the 25 hours SOE have to be in a 501 or 551? FAR 64.64(g) says: The limitation described under paragraph (f)(2) of this section may be removed from the pilot certificate if the applicant complies with the following -
(1) Performs 25 hours of flight time in an aircraft of the category, class, and type for which the limitation applies under the direct observation of the pilot in command who holds a category, class, and type rating, without limitations, for the aircraft;Since a 550 is the same category (airplane), class (multiengine), and type (CE-500), then those hours should count. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 09 Dec 2021, 11:45 |
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Joined: 02/15/21 Posts: 2530 Post Likes: +1254
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Username Protected wrote: Sorry if this has been answered somewhere else, but if I get a CE500 type rating in a simulator (not limited to SIC), can I do the 25 hours SOE in a 550 and would that allow me to fly the 501 solo (as far as the FAA is concerned), or does the 25 hours SOE have to be in a 501 or 551? FAR 64.64(g) says: The limitation described under paragraph (f)(2) of this section may be removed from the pilot certificate if the applicant complies with the following -
(1) Performs 25 hours of flight time in an aircraft of the category, class, and type for which the limitation applies under the direct observation of the pilot in command who holds a category, class, and type rating, without limitations, for the aircraft;Since a 550 is the same category (airplane), class (multiengine), and type (CE-500), then those hours should count. Mike C. Good, so that opens up more possibilities for the SOE period.
I wonder if "without limitations" means the supervising pilot has to be SPE qualified in the case of a 550?
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