16 Apr 2024, 02:56 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp  Posted: 03 Oct 2018, 15:36 |
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Joined: 03/09/13
Posts: 910
Post Likes: +449
Location: Byron Bay,NSW Australia
Aircraft: CE525,PA31
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Username Protected wrote: You are saying redline in the 501sp increases with altitude? Does that have to do with weight/fuel burn? Not sure of 501 but it changes in the CJ2 and is just an attitude thing. Everyone gets caught out and gets the overspeed chime except for meAndrew
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 03 Oct 2018, 15:37 |
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Joined: 08/03/10
Posts: 1562
Post Likes: +1781
Company: D&M Leasing Houston
Location: Katy, TX (KTME)
Aircraft: CitationV/C180
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Username Protected wrote: As most of you know, I absolutely love my V tail.
Flying home from Fort Collins, CO to Rochester, MN, all 3hr and 30 minutes of it, I have to admit I was doing some napkin math about “now what if” it was 300 knots instead of my 185 at that time....
Nancy and Errol asleep so what else is a man to do..... Cruising at FL230 doing 260kts last weekend, I was doing the exact same thing trying to figure out a sane way to get out of my F and into a solitaire for the additional climb rate and 40-50 knots cruise speed. Its a 14% increase in speed for a 100% increase in costs. I went back to looking at the view from FL230. It never ends.
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 03 Oct 2018, 16:33 |
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Joined: 11/06/13
Posts: 404
Post Likes: +247
Location: KFTW-Fort Worth Meacham
Aircraft: C208B, AL18-115
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Vne should decrease with altitude (barber pole should come down.)
This is because flutter is a function of true air speed and not indicated air speed.
Another way to look at it: the pitot tube measures the ram air pressure-which goes down for a given true airspeed as altitude increase because there are fewer molecules. However, pitot tube does not measure the speed at which the air molecules traverse the aircraft. Flutter comes from the speed of the molecules.
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 03 Oct 2018, 16:35 |
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Joined: 01/31/10
Posts: 13101
Post Likes: +6970
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Username Protected wrote: Vne should decrease with altitude (barber pole should come down.)
This is because flutter is a function of true air speed and not indicated air speed.
Another way to look at it: the pitot tube measures the ram air pressure-which goes down for a given true airspeed as altitude increase because there are fewer molecules. However, pitot tube does not measure the speed at which the air molecules traverse the aircraft. Flutter comes from the speed of the molecules. Yes...but that is not what is being discussed here.
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 03 Oct 2018, 16:36 |
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Joined: 08/03/10
Posts: 1562
Post Likes: +1781
Company: D&M Leasing Houston
Location: Katy, TX (KTME)
Aircraft: CitationV/C180
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Username Protected wrote: 170 kts also changes your life if you're coming from a car. Very true. There are increments though. In the Baron from Houston to Key West is an all day affair with a stop in the middle. In the MU2 I leave at breakfast and land for lunch. That's a trip I want to take now instead of one I'd dread. I imagine the same would be true for a CJ3 and up. Alaska or Canada from Houston is accessible for a long weekend. Not so in the MU2. That kind of freedom and flexibility is life changing.
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 03 Oct 2018, 17:00 |
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Joined: 03/01/14
Posts: 2150
Post Likes: +1634
Location: 0TX0 Granbury TX
Aircraft: T-210M Aeronca 7AC
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Username Protected wrote: You are saying redline in the 501sp increases with altitude? Does that have to do with weight/fuel burn? Not sure of 501 but it changes in the CJ2 and is just an attitude thing. Everyone gets caught out and gets the overspeed chime except for meAndrew
There’s a circuit breaker that fixes that 262 deal.
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 03 Oct 2018, 17:37 |
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Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 6351
Post Likes: +5538
Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
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Username Protected wrote:
Cruising at FL230 doing 260kts last weekend, I was doing the exact same thing trying to figure out a sane way to get out of my F and into a solitaire for the additional climb rate and 40-50 knots cruise speed. Its a 14% increase in speed for a 100% increase in costs. I went back to looking at the view from FL230.
It never ends.
Very true. Do the same thing myself all the time. "Oh I wish I had a 980 model so I could climb to FL280" or "wish I had -10's so I could go 300kts". But the fact is they all just give you incremental performance improvements, at a 100-200% cost increase. Not to mention that you then also step up to more advanced systems that cost more to repair should they break. I marvel at how simple all the systems are on the early models. Simple is good.
_________________
Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 03 Oct 2018, 17:38 |
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Joined: 06/08/12
Posts: 12587
Post Likes: +5181
Company: Mayo Clinic
Location: Rochester, MN
Aircraft: Planeless in RST
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Username Protected wrote: Your all in Luc is a lot more reasonable and affordable than the TP. I'd question it, if it affects retirement at all. Living or flying in retirement. Just not worth it at our age if it's not mission/business related I don't think. That is unless the missus wins the Powerball soon. Then it's Katie bar the door... You are of course 100% correct Chuck. This would affect retirement in a big way. Non-starter I’m afraid. About those tickets Nancy......
_________________
BFR 8/18; IPC 8/18
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 03 Oct 2018, 17:45 |
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Joined: 10/24/12
Posts: 429
Post Likes: +147
Location: Hamilton, AL (KHAB)
Aircraft: CJ2, B58, M20J
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Username Protected wrote: Vne should decrease with altitude (barber pole should come down.)
This is because flutter is a function of true air speed and not indicated air speed.
Another way to look at it: the pitot tube measures the ram air pressure-which goes down for a given true airspeed as altitude increase because there are fewer molecules. However, pitot tube does not measure the speed at which the air molecules traverse the aircraft. Flutter comes from the speed of the molecules. Yes...but that is not what is being discussed here.
VMO goes from 260 up to 275 once above 8000' in the CJ2. MMO is always .72 though.
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 03 Oct 2018, 18:08 |
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Joined: 11/06/13
Posts: 404
Post Likes: +247
Location: KFTW-Fort Worth Meacham
Aircraft: C208B, AL18-115
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woops. should have read more before opening my mouth. Ed
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 15 Oct 2018, 17:51 |
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Joined: 01/31/10
Posts: 13101
Post Likes: +6970
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Flew a 501 into Burbank. Wind 20G30 60 degree crosswind variable 60 degrees with 30kt shear on final. Sporty! It did great.
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Last edited on 16 Oct 2018, 11:26, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 15 Oct 2018, 18:55 |
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Joined: 05/29/13
Posts: 13585
Post Likes: +10970
Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
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Username Protected wrote: Flew a 501 into Burbank. Wind 20G30 60 degree crosswind variable 60 degrees with 30kt shear on final. Sporty! It did great. Don’t forget my “taste” 
_________________
Mark Hangen
Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson)
Power of the Turbine
"Jet Elite"
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