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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2021, 00:09 
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Joined: 04/24/18
Posts: 727
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Location: NYC
Aircraft: ISP Eagle II SR22 g2
Username Protected wrote:
I understand that brakes are very expensive, so TR might save thousands.


I'm sure there's a cost to maintain tr's as well. May cancel out any savings.

And obviously brakes have no real correlation to hours flown. If you fly 3 hour legs into 7k' strips they'll last quite a while. Short trips n tight strips, longevity clips...


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2021, 08:51 
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Joined: 01/17/21
Posts: 87
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Aircraft: C550
My true airspeed is 380 knots at 34k . My SIC has a lot of time in 550’s & has said it doesn’t seem like I burn as much fuel per hour as with TR’s . I’m to new the the 550 to know . It’s supposed to be faster without TR’s.


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2021, 09:06 
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Joined: 11/16/14
Posts: 8632
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Company: Forever a Student Pilot
Location: Colfax Washington
Aircraft: 1947 Bonanza 35
Username Protected wrote:
I have nothing to contribute to this thread, but I really like reading it, at this point I can afford some day dreaming. So I’m posting just to have it a click away on the “View Your Posts”. Hoping to meet the Mikes in person someday in the near future and listen to the Citation wisdom with a beer or two. :cheers:


:coffee: Rodrigo, I Like Reading this Thread also :D
As far as Meeting the two Mikes? :eek: They don't give Me the Time of Day........and Why would they? :lol:

Now Meeting You? and Buying You a Beer?...............that would be Fun :cheers: :thumbup: :D

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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2021, 08:00 
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Joined: 05/05/09
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Aircraft: G44, C501, C55, R66
I can't tell a difference in speed on a 501 or 550 with or without TRs. I've heard this rumor but I don't think it's true. Also, I haven't spent a nickel on maintaining them. I don't think that's a factor either.


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 07 Apr 2021, 14:13 
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Does anyone know if Cessna SB11-4 to convert a 500 to a 501 is still effective? Does anyone do those conversions anymore?

That would turn a 500 into a 501 and no SPE would be required to fly it, correct?

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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 07 Apr 2021, 17:30 
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Joined: 05/05/09
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Aircraft: G44, C501, C55, R66
Username Protected wrote:
Does anyone know if Cessna SB11-4 to convert a 500 to a 501 is still effective? Does anyone do those conversions anymore?

That would turn a 500 into a 501 and no SPE would be required to fly it, correct?


Still possible for a foreign market 500 made 1977 or later. Foreign 501s were sold as 500s. It would be so expensive to do today as to not be feasible because only a service center can do it. It never applied to converting a short wing early 500 into a 501.


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 07 Apr 2021, 18:51 
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Joined: 01/31/09
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Location: Northern NJ
Aircraft: SR22;CJ2+;C510
Username Protected wrote:
Not sure about the 501 because it’s heavier, but I have over 800 hours on my brakes on the Mustang. They last awhile.


Hours is a meaningless measure when discussing brakes. Number of landings is the primary metric. But runway length and how aggressive you are with braking can make a big difference in brake life.

A contract pilot always trying to make the first turnoff can go through brakes quickly.

An owner landing on long runways and letting the plane slow naturally and roll to the end can get lots of brake life.

A CJ2 can get around 600 landings on a set of brakes.

Between brakes and tire consumables every landing can cost around $50.

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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 07 Apr 2021, 19:29 
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Joined: 01/17/21
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Aircraft: C550
Once you get your 500 type rating you must get your SPW . Then your annual recurrent trading is only the SPW . Only the 1st year requires 2 check rides .


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 07 Apr 2021, 19:41 
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Joined: 01/01/10
Posts: 3435
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Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Aircraft: Citation Mustang
Username Protected wrote:
Hours is a meaningless measure when discussing brakes. Number of landings is the primary metric. But runway length and how aggressive you are with braking can make a big difference in brake life.

A contract pilot always trying to make the first turnoff can go through brakes quickly.

An owner landing on long runways and letting the plane slow naturally and roll to the end can get lots of brake life.

A CJ2 can get around 600 landings on a set of brakes.

Between brakes and tire consumables every landing can cost around $50.

I agree. Number of landings is the metric for brakes and tires. I'm at 587 landings on my brakes with a lot left.

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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 07 Apr 2021, 19:44 
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Joined: 05/05/09
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Aircraft: G44, C501, C55, R66
500 series tires are $450 and brakes are $1800 if you know where to look. 800 landings is a reasonable expectation so more like $6-10 a landing max.


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 07 Apr 2021, 21:37 
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Joined: 01/16/11
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Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
Username Protected wrote:
I liked my MU-2 and it’s a wonderful airplane but I do not believe anymore that it’s any cheaper to own than a Citation.

That would be wonderful news to a new Citation owner!

Alas, I don't really believe it after owning an MU2 for 13 years.

If amount of paperwork correlates to cost to own, then there is no fracking way a Citation can cost the same as an MU2. I have 30 lbs of MU2 paperwork over 46 years, and 200 lbs of Citation V paperwork over 30 years. The Citation literally generates 10 times the paperwork per year.

Mike C.


Whew, you fellas had me seriously sweating there. I was gonna loan you a PC12 :D
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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 20 Apr 2021, 17:19 
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Joined: 11/06/20
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Location: Tulsa, OK - KRVS
Aircraft: C501SP
Hi Everyone,

This has been a great thread. I appreciate all of the input and candor that BT always brings out. Here’s my story…

We have been flying along in our (club-owned) G6 SR22 for a little while now. The family (2 adults, 2 kids - 7 and 10) is loving the freedom and flexibility of GA and I love the challenge of flying. But now we want to be able to take another family of 4 with us. Plus a lav would be nice, pressurization, being able to get on top of weather, and on and on.

So I started looking at cabin class piston twins and was convinced that a straight leg 421C was for me. Then I find myself on BT w/ Mike C going on about how he can run his MU-2 for the same as a 421. Plus it’s faster, safer, etc. So then I started looking at 441’s and Marquise’s. Now, I’ve read through this entire thread and am wondering if a 501SP might be the right fit for me.

Here is the mission:
1) Purely recreational plane.
2) Probably 80 or so hours per year, though may go up w/ a more capable aircraft
3) Flights between 500 and 800 nm with 8 people - 4 adults and 4 kids. Kids are small now but will grow. I have dreams of flying to Cancun, Caribbean, etc but not part of current mission.
4) A couple times per year we will go out to NorCal to visit friends ~1,300nm but will just be the 4 of us. We have no issues w/ a fuel stop as we already do bio stops every few hours in the Cirrus. We haven’t even tried to do the NorCal trip in the Cirrus.

I like the safety factor of a jet. Less excitement than in a TP if an engine fails (which is less again compared to a pressurized piston twin) plus fewer things to break in the jet (NTS/autofeather, gearboxes, etc). I also like how people describe the 501SP as having docile/172-like handling. I am not worried about the type rating/training requirement as I would do a detailed initial, fly with a mentor for a while (a long while if I go MU-2), and do annual recurrent training no matter what aircraft I buy. I actually like doing training as it makes my brain work in a different way than my day job and, while stressful, it is invigorating to me.

So, would a 501SP work for this? Browsing controller, it’s hard to get a feel for whether there are enough seats. There seems to be a lot of variation in the cabin configs. I need 8 belted seats, plus the lav.

As for me, I am currently SEL Instrument. Doing my MEL in early June. I realize that jets are quite a bit faster and could be a handful in the terminal area. But most of my flights today are to uncontrolled fields, outside of Bravos (though I do have a brother-in-law near IAH), so I feel that I would be able to come up to speed (no pun intended) away from the hustle and bustle.

Sorry for the long-winded post. I appreciate the thoughts of the BT brain trust.


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 20 Apr 2021, 17:37 
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Joined: 03/04/13
Posts: 2568
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Location: Little Rock, Ar
Aircraft: A36 C560 C551 C550S
I would think you would be a candidate. Insurance will be the limiting factor, I’m afraid. If you can get beyond that, for eight seats you might also look at 551s (Citation IISP). I operate both.

Robert T


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 20 Apr 2021, 18:16 
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Joined: 05/05/09
Posts: 4946
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Aircraft: G44, C501, C55, R66
The Sierra aft bench airplanes like mine have 10 belted real seats. I think you are a candidate.


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 20 Apr 2021, 18:25 
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Joined: 03/15/16
Posts: 695
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Location: Charlotte NC
Aircraft: Piper Mirage
I have a hard time understanding type ratings. I thought for a 501sp you would need a 500 type rating and then a single pilot exemption. My understand was that you would need: (i have no idea though)


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