18 Apr 2024, 17:37 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 21 Apr 2018, 09:17 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23622 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: If you had to use it everyday for business; it would eat you alive but for 75-100hrs a year, it's absolutely perfect. It is usually the reverse as more hours amortize hangar, insurance, taxes, subscriptions, and calendar based maintenance over more flying hours. What makes it more expensive to fly more such that using routinely in business isn't appropriate? Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 21 Apr 2018, 10:45 |
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Joined: 10/31/14 Posts: 534 Post Likes: +255
Aircraft: eclipse
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Back in the day when I was waiting for my Eclipse my instructor told me to just buy a citation. I was interested until he told me to expect a 100k bill for an phase check And that’s without issues
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 21 Apr 2018, 10:57 |
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Joined: 05/05/09 Posts: 4958 Post Likes: +4796
Aircraft: G44, C501, C55, R66
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Username Protected wrote: Back in the day when I was waiting for my Eclipse my instructor told me to just buy a citation. I was interested until he told me to expect a 100k bill for an phase check And that’s without issues I directly know 4 former Eclipse owners that now own Citation 1SPs. All of us agree that is meaningfully less expensive to own a 1SP than an Eclipse. All of us agree that the Citation is significantly better built and more reliable than the Eclipse. The Eclipse is like a Siren that lures you in with low fuel costs but then kills you with probes, windshields, outflow valves, servos and broken computers. The number of people on the Eclipse forum with AOG issues lasting many months is incredibly scary. The Citation is brutally honest and says, "Hey, I burn a ton of fuel but that's about all I'm going to hassle you with". Phase 1-4 is about $12K and Phase V is about 25K at a real shop. I'm sure you could bring a guy in on the side and do it cheaper. You can extend these significantly if you get on the Kevin Bacon program. Simple, robust systems that rarely break and it is easy to work on. 48 month inspections on the Eclipse are running about $40-50K.
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 21 Apr 2018, 11:39 |
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Joined: 10/31/14 Posts: 534 Post Likes: +255
Aircraft: eclipse
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Michael I am happy with my Eclipse and I am happy that you are happy with your airplane.
I am coming up on 10 years of ownership and it’s been a great ride.
Let’s see how long you enjoy your airplane.
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 21 Apr 2018, 17:15 |
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Joined: 12/31/17 Posts: 937 Post Likes: +540 Location: KADS
Aircraft: C560, C340
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Username Protected wrote: Back in the day when I was waiting for my Eclipse my instructor told me to just buy a citation. I was interested until he told me to expect a 100k bill for an phase check And that’s without issues I directly know 4 former Eclipse owners that now own Citation 1SPs. All of us agree that is meaningfully less expensive to own a 1SP than an Eclipse. All of us agree that the Citation is significantly better built and more reliable than the Eclipse. The Eclipse is like a Siren that lures you in with low fuel costs but then kills you with probes, windshields, outflow valves, servos and broken computers. The number of people on the Eclipse forum with AOG issues lasting many months is incredibly scary. The Citation is brutally honest and says, "Hey, I burn a ton of fuel but that's about all I'm going to hassle you with". Phase 1-4 is about $12K and Phase V is about 25K at a real shop. I'm sure you could bring a guy in on the side and do it cheaper. You can extend these significantly if you get on the Kevin Bacon program. Simple, robust systems that rarely break and it is easy to work on. 48 month inspections on the Eclipse are running about $40-50K.
We have been operating an Ultra for 11 years, last 2 on the Bacon program. I am still learning the prices on the Bacon program. On the old program I would budget 40K for a 1-4 and 80 to 90K for a 1-5. Those prices include all the repairs and parts they found during the inspections.
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 21 Apr 2018, 18:15 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23622 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: not something I would suggest for a 300 hour a year business user. Funny, that's exactly the profile of who I think CAN afford to use it. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 21 Apr 2018, 18:38 |
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Joined: 09/04/10 Posts: 3539 Post Likes: +3198
Aircraft: C55, PC-12
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Username Protected wrote: not something I would suggest for a 300 hour a year business user. Funny, that's exactly the profile of who I think CAN afford to use it. Mike C. I was going to say the same thing. Not too that I can justify using the CJ for personal trips but have no problem with 300 hours/yr for business.
_________________ John Lockhart Phoenix, AZ Ridgway, CO
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 21 Apr 2018, 18:39 |
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Joined: 05/05/09 Posts: 4958 Post Likes: +4796
Aircraft: G44, C501, C55, R66
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Username Protected wrote: not something I would suggest for a 300 hour a year business user. Funny, that's exactly the profile of who I think CAN afford to use it. Mike C.
I don't think a serious business user would buy an old Klingon jet but maybe I'm wrong. Such a person would probably want something newer and wouldn't fly it and manage it himself. I have no need to operate this thing 300 hours a year. Most of my flying is recreational seaplane flying, a decent amount is Lancair flying alone and the rest is Klingon travel with my wife.
Maybe that's the point I'm trying to make: The ISP is a pretty good platform for someone to have as a second airplane and it's not going to murder you financially if you choose your missions for it.
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 21 Apr 2018, 19:09 |
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Joined: 01/31/09 Posts: 5233 Post Likes: +3026 Location: Northern NJ
Aircraft: SR22;CJ2+;C510
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Username Protected wrote: Local Citation shop says they average 9-12K for a 1-4 and $20K for the average 1-5. I can live with these numbers. When is your next 1-5 due?
_________________ Allen
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