Tell me the dates you have been surveyed for your operating costs in these surveys.

If you say "none", I rest my case.

I've never met a person who has been asked to provide data to these supposed experts about their costs.

Mike C.

Excellent! Can you based it at KEVV for me? Thanks!

Mike C.

Direct cost is fuel and maintenance (not hangar, insurance, taxes, etc).

$3.63 per nm for a 600 nm trip is $2,178.

That leg will take 2.2 hours (assuming still air) and burn ~170 gallons fuel. At $3.50/gallon, that is $595.

That leaves $1,583 for maintenance, or $720 per hour for maintenance.

Fails sanity check by a WIDE margin.

People who lack the basic mathematical and logical skills to detect these errors will believe these fake numbers.

Mike C.

What’s the type rating cost for a citation 501sp? Quick search show 12-15k. Is the accurate?

Depends on how you do it, your preparation, talent, and skill.

Simcom quoted me just over $12K, all in sim. I qualify for an all sim TC due to turbine hours I have in the MU2 (need 500 hours in turbines in same class, that is, multi engine land). It should be noted the $12K was at a discount for a returning customer (just did MU2 recurrent at Simcom in Feb). I think list is ~$18K.

There are quite a number of instructors who will do it in airplane and they will charge something less, but you have airplane operating costs to contend with, not to mention needed use of a Citation. Figure ~15 hours operation I would guess. My insurance agent said the underwriters favor the sim courses for TC.

I met an instructor at KSDL who said he had someone who was *40 hours* into their TC course, in airplane, and still not ready. The instructor had told the guy he wasn't jet material but the guy insisted on keep trying. The instructor is still doing it because he said he didn't want the guy finding someone else who would sign him off prematurely. Note the instructor had a flat fee, so this wasn't a money thing. Some people just do not have it, and that usually manifests itself in their lack of instrument skill and proficiency.

If you are considering flying a jet, the cost of the TC is relatively immaterial, maybe 10 hours operating cost if you get it in sim. Relatively speaking, the cost of your PPL to rent a $150/hour 172 was *WAY* higher.

PS: If you currently fly a turboprop, you can go get your turboprop recurrent at Simcom and the returning customer discount on the jet TC course essentially covers the recurrent or may be even more than the recurrent. So you get the turboprop recurrent for free, in effect.

Mike C.

If you memorize the systems and can fly the ATP profiles it is very easy to do it in your own airplane 6-7k. Works for a proficient pilot but not going to work for someone that needs spoon feeding.

Conversely, people who lack basic research and reading skills are going to misunderstand any data they look at, and I think that's what happened to you. It appears you didn't read (or perhaps didn't understand) the B&CA methodology.

The methodology they employ utilizes a national fuel cost snapshot at the time of publication (2017). Thus their fuel cost is higher than what you probably pay with contract fuel. That, in turn, raises the fuel portion of the direct operating cost and lowers the maintenance portion.

The remaining maintenance portion of direct cost for the MU2 strikes me as still pretty high, but I assume that's only because it's an old plane with lots of old components that need expensive maintenance.

Those are the numbers. Feel free to find another balanced, impartial survey of a broad base of operators if you're not satisfied with B&CA's conclusions.

Ken

"broad base of operators"?

I've yet to meet a SINGLE person who owns an MU2 who has been surveyed for B&CA numbers.

Please list the dates they have surveyed YOU for the Eclipse.

None you say?

Okay, please list the dates and serial numbers of other Eclipses they have surveyed.

Still none?

Okay, ANYBODY reading this thread, list the dates you have been surveyed for B&CA's cost analysis report.

<crickets>

Case closed. They aren't surveying us owner operators and maybe no one else at all and just making up the numbers.

Like many in today's society, you are guilty of putting faith in something because of how well it agrees with your views rather than the strength of the evidence and analysis behind it.

Mike C.

I assume this is instructor costs only, airplane hours are another matter.

$6K buys about 5 hours of 501 time doing low altitude maneuvers, ain't no way that's enough to get a type rating and pay an instructor.

Mike C.

"broad base of operators"?

I've yet to meet a SINGLE person who owns an MU2 who has been surveyed for B&CA numbers.

Please list the dates they have surveyed YOU for the Eclipse.

None you say?

Okay, please list the dates and serial numbers of other Eclipses they have surveyed.

Still none?

Okay, ANYBODY reading this thread, list the dates you have been surveyed for B&CA's cost analysis report.

<crickets>

Case closed. They aren't surveying us owner operators and maybe no one else at all and just making up the numbers.

Like many in today's society, you are guilty of putting faith in something because of how well it agrees with your views rather than the strength of the evidence and analysis behind it.

Mike C.

I assume this is instructor costs only, airplane hours are another matter.

$6K buys about 5 hours of 501 time doing low altitude maneuvers, ain't no way that's enough to get a type rating and pay an instructor.

Mike C.

[/quote] $6K buys about 5 hours of 501 time doing low altitude maneuvers, ain't no way that's enough to get a type rating and pay an instructor.

Mike C.[/quote]

Mike, I'll give you the chance to take the Citation Challenge this weekend. Be in Florida on Friday morning and you will leave Sunday with a type rating for around $6K +/- $1,000. Obviously the weather is out of my control. Memorize the manual and systems this week.

$6K buys about 5 hours of 501 time doing low altitude maneuvers, ain't no way that's enough to get a type rating and pay an instructor.

Mike C.[/quote]

Mike, I'll give you the chance to take the Citation Challenge this weekend. Be in Florida on Friday morning and you will leave Sunday with a type rating for around $6K +/- $1,000. Obviously the weather is out of my control. Memorize the manual and systems this week.[/quote]

Why does the word memorize sound so...bad? Do you mean learn the systems? Pretty certain Mike isn’t a memorization kind of guy.

$6K buys about 5 hours of 501 time doing low altitude maneuvers, ain't no way that's enough to get a type rating and pay an instructor.

Mike C.

I see. No futher questions. It all makes sense now. Thanks.