Well damn, I’m going to have to read the entire 41 pages and see if a 500 series is for me. Did 320 HRs in the 421 last year

Dude if you fly very long legs you can deffinately make a Klingon work!

We just finished a really intensive Phase 1-5 on a rental Klingon (It's currently available for training at Premier Jet in Stuart and is all Garmined up and also very nice to look at) that included a new windshield (45 hours and a new side window (35 hours) along with lots of little squawks. This was done by an independent service center and not some shade tree mechanic.

Everyone is probably wondering what does a really intensive inspection cost? What does this thing cost to own? I think it is a safe bet that including lots of little squawks and averaging in big stuff like windows, it's about $12-15K a year in maintenance to own one of these.

Some have suggested it takes $60-100K a year to maintain these but I genuinely believe that is not accurate with some very basic prudence and planning.

In general it is X hours of labor per hour of flying. I think 1 to 1 is possible but it gets harder with older airplanes. If parts are cheap and labor is cheap and you don't fly too many hours then you may hit the low end. If you take it to the service center and use new parts then you'll hit the high end. If a used part isn't available, then you'll miss the mark by quite a bit.

My Williams engines cost $145/hr on the TAP plan. Recently an ignitor broke off and went through the engine and Williams came out and replaced about 2/3rds of the engine. The engine program covered 100% of this (labor and parts). Luck can go either way when you own something like this. I think 10-15K/year definitely includes some good luck.

MH
Thanks for the link to Liberty. This is a perfect example of what really turns people off from GA. The mystery surrounding costs. One one hand you've got one guy saying that he easily maintains his jet for $15k per year. Seriously? Cmon. Then, this Liberty budget shows $150k for maintenance. Someone here is waaaay off.

Sounds like a fabulous business opportunity for Michael! ........ Hmmmmmm, maybe not.

I am not buying this story. I can’t believe anyone is operating any turbine aircraft at this cost. Brakes, tires, avionics, inspection labor and oh ya...parts.

BT fail.

I am not buying this story. I can’t believe anyone is operating any turbine aircraft at this cost. Brakes, tires, avionics, inspection labor and oh ya...parts.

why not? He's owned it for 8 months, with his math he probably has 500hours of time in it, that's plenty of time to accumulate a detailed maintenance log and handle multiple major inspection intervals, and even instruct others in the airframe!

it would be great if we had pilots on this forum who have owned and operated jets for years, both personal and business that could contribute, oh wait...

I sure hope it works out for him. I think if one looks at just the number of man hours required to perform the inspections at an hourly rate, it will exceed the above estimate. Then, one has to add the cost to fix what the inspection finds. Then, there's normal wear and tear replacements. Then, there's other things that are old that have to be fixed. Then.......

why not? He's owned it for 8 months, with his math he probably has 500hours of time in it, that's plenty of time to accumulate a detailed maintenance log and handle multiple major inspection intervals, and even instruct others in the airframe!

it would be great if we had pilots on this forum who have owned and operated jets for years, both personal and business that could contribute, oh wait...

I do not believe there is a single pilot on this forum that will tell you after 150hours of owning their plane they had it all figured out and expected no further surprises.

This is beechtalk, everyone has something to contribute to this topic- from the airline pilots, to the business owners, to the retired crowd and the student pilots. I think the resistance you are hitting on this subject is from those who have either done the homework and come to a different conclusion on operating an older jet, or those who have BTDT and have the receipts to prove it. Time will tell for you, didn't your last jet endeavor result in a yard sale?

I believe you are in the dental industry- I'm sure you notice those who do not floss, or those who are in need of some preventative care, it probably comes natural to you, call it a gift?

I work with numbers, manipulation, and logic. While observing your posts and post history, the math is often puzzling. Can't wait to see what the hobbs reads on controller when you sell this bird.

I have to address the envy comment. My typical flight missions are 225nm; there is a 441 that flies the same leg weekly, I know the pilot very well, it is not uncommon that I arrive ahead of him or at the very least at a similar ETA. The fuel truck visits me less. I have concluded that I have zero use for a light jet based on this and other factors. I can maintain a much better return on my capital with my other investments. Again with that pesky logic

Logical, thoughtful response Brian. I'm not worried about financial surprises on the 501. I've accepted the risk of financial pain and I accept it. Let's remove the financial issue from the discussion. Analytics, math, experience of others, and your own logic all go into financial planning when looking at an airplane purchase. There's a lot of risk in buying and owning an older jet and if can't accept this, don't do it. I guarantee you can get burned in this with a bad airframe. I, thus far, have been lucky with maintenance expenses. Maybe it won't continue this way, maybe it will. That's my experience.

Let's also remove justifying this from a financial perspective. You can't do that. It makes no sense. You do it because you want to do it. There's no justification for owning a jet.

My IV-P will beat the Citation on pretty much any trip anywhere at 1/10 the cost of operation. That's not the point. My wife likes the Citation and the Citation is a hobby and I love my wife. I prefer the IV-P but once again, that doesn't matter.

Let's try to refocus this thread onto the experiences of legacy Citation owners rather than the justification of doing this. Share your costs, wins, loses, and experiences.

My latest stupidity is I bought a hangar that cost more than the airplane to put my jet in. Stupid me.