29 Mar 2024, 05:41 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video Posted: 21 Nov 2017, 02:17 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23615 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: "Utility of a Turboprop and comfort of a jet" Until the runway has water, snow, or ice on it. Then the jet doesn't have the utility of the turboprop. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video Posted: 21 Nov 2017, 07:40 |
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Joined: 02/13/10 Posts: 20103 Post Likes: +23514 Location: Castle Rock, Colorado
Aircraft: Prior C310,BE33,SR22
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Username Protected wrote: Very nice video but 2250 and 2500 pound PAYLOAD, wow! My little Bonanza has 908 pound payload Citation Mustang full fuel payload is 600 lbs, Citation X is 1855, HondaJet is 547, so Pilatus looks pretty amazing. There are only a few million reasons I haven't ordered one..
_________________ Arlen Get your motor runnin' Head out on the highway - Mars Bonfire
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Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video Posted: 21 Nov 2017, 09:10 |
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Joined: 05/23/08 Posts: 6059 Post Likes: +702 Location: CMB7, Ottawa, Canada
Aircraft: TBM - C185 - T206
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Who will bring their $10m jet on a dirt strip? Can wait to see that. Username Protected wrote: "Utility of a Turboprop and comfort of a jet" Until the runway has water, snow, or ice on it. Then the jet doesn't have the utility of the turboprop. Mike C.
_________________ Former Baron 58 owner. Pistons engines are for tractors.
Marc Bourdon
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Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video Posted: 21 Nov 2017, 10:57 |
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Joined: 02/26/11 Posts: 482 Post Likes: +289 Location: Fort Worth, TX
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Username Protected wrote: On the landings, it looked like all spoilers and brakes. I did not see TR buckets.
Does it not have TRs? What are the arguments against them? Complexity and weight primarily.
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Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video Posted: 21 Nov 2017, 11:01 |
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Joined: 01/29/08 Posts: 26431 Post Likes: +13064 Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: Who will bring their $10m jet on a dirt strip? Can wait to see that.
Not me. I dont bring my PC12 into dirt strips. I want the PC24 because it's big, has great range, single pilot and it looks awesome.... Oh and it has a cargo door. Granted ice and wet runways will affect the performance of the PC24 but that's true for all jets so it's not really a ding to PC24. Planesense is already taking delivery of their PC24's.
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Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video Posted: 21 Nov 2017, 11:08 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23615 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: Does it not have TRs? What are the arguments against them? No thrust reversers. It is all spoilers and brakes. The FJ44-4A has low idle thrust. TRs are extra weight and complexity. You don't get credit for having them in the landing numbers. I'm not aware any FJ44 powered aircraft has thrust reversers. None of the CJ 525 series do, though some early pre FADEC models had "thrust attenuators", basically paddles in the exhaust stream. With a FADEC, you can more precisely control low RPMs and can profile the fuel flow for better acceleration for a go around. Both things allow lower flight idle power settings. Additionally, the FADEC gets the WOW switch (squat switch) so it knows when you are on the ground and it switches to ground idle some number of seconds after touch down automatically. The PC-24 *may* have auto spoilers, activate on WOW. This increases drag and puts more weight on wheels for better braking. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video Posted: 21 Nov 2017, 11:19 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23615 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: Granted ice and wet runways will affect the performance of the PC24 but that's true for all jets So not the "utility of a turboprop". Quote: Planesense is already taking delivery of their PC24's. Funny, it isn't even certified yet. They say "by year end". Planesense has serial #101, HB-VSB, registered to it, just one plane, but Pilatus flies it, so not really "delivered" and clearly not an operational part of Plansesense's fleet. 84 sales/positions which is claimed to be 3 years of production. By that measure, it will take Pilatus a decade to reach the same number of CJ4s Textron has already delivered (~270). Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video Posted: 21 Nov 2017, 11:22 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23615 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: I'd heard you can't count TRs for runway numbers. Seems a shame to not be able to. TRs may fail. Similarly, you can't count on having both engines for takeoff. Jets are held to a much higher standard when it comes to performance. On the other hand, ABS brakes are always assumed to be working, which I never quite understood. What makes one system (TRs) not dependable, and another so (ABS brakes)? Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video Posted: 21 Nov 2017, 11:24 |
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Joined: 01/29/08 Posts: 26431 Post Likes: +13064 Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: Granted ice and wet runways will affect the performance of the PC24 but that's true for all jets So not the "utility of a turboprop". Quote: Planesense is already taking delivery of their PC24's. Funny, it isn't even certified yet. They say "by year end". Planesense has serial #101, HB-VSB, registered to it, just one plane, but Pilatus flies it, so not really "delivered" and clearly not an operational part of Plansesense's fleet. 84 sales/positions which is claimed to be 3 years of production. By that measure, it will take Pilatus a decade to reach the same number of CJ4s Textron has already delivered (~270). Mike C. The quote was from the video..... Not my quote. Send them a letter.
Pilatus is offering me a PC24. Delivery first of the year.
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Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video Posted: 21 Nov 2017, 11:34 |
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Joined: 10/05/11 Posts: 9553 Post Likes: +6410 Company: Power/mation Location: Milwaukee, WI (KMKE)
Aircraft: 1963 Debonair B33
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Username Protected wrote: On the other hand, ABS brakes are always assumed to be working, which I never quite understood. What makes one system (TRs) not dependable, and another so (ABS brakes)?
Good negotiating?
_________________ Be Nice
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Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video Posted: 21 Nov 2017, 11:37 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23615 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: Pilatus is offering me a PC24. Delivery first of the year. How special you are that they are holding one of the first off the line for you instead of the 84 others who have already put money down on a contract. Yeah, I believe that... sure... absolutely... Go do it, then. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video Posted: 21 Nov 2017, 11:39 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23615 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: Quote: What makes one system (TRs) not dependable, and another so (ABS brakes)? Good negotiating? No, the practical fact that without ABS, jets would have terrible landing distances. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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