banner
banner

29 Mar 2024, 05:41 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Concorde Battery (banner)



Reply to topic  [ 59 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video
PostPosted: 21 Nov 2017, 02:17 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 19252
Post Likes: +23615
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
"Utility of a Turboprop and comfort of a jet"

Until the runway has water, snow, or ice on it.

Then the jet doesn't have the utility of the turboprop.

Mike C.

_________________
Email mikec (at) ciholas.com


Top

 Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video
PostPosted: 21 Nov 2017, 07:08 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 04/09/09
Posts: 1308
Post Likes: +96
Location: Raleigh, NC KRDU
Aircraft: F33A
Very nice video but 2250 and 2500 pound PAYLOAD, wow! :bugeye: My little Bonanza has 908 pound payload :D


Top

 Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video
PostPosted: 21 Nov 2017, 07:40 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 02/13/10
Posts: 20103
Post Likes: +23514
Location: Castle Rock, Colorado
Aircraft: Prior C310,BE33,SR22
Username Protected wrote:
Very nice video but 2250 and 2500 pound PAYLOAD, wow! :bugeye: My little Bonanza has 908 pound payload :D

Citation Mustang full fuel payload is 600 lbs, Citation X is 1855, HondaJet is 547, so Pilatus looks pretty amazing.

There are only a few million reasons I haven't ordered one..

_________________
Arlen
Get your motor runnin'
Head out on the highway
- Mars Bonfire


Top

 Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video
PostPosted: 21 Nov 2017, 09:10 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 05/23/08
Posts: 6059
Post Likes: +702
Location: CMB7, Ottawa, Canada
Aircraft: TBM - C185 - T206
Who will bring their $10m jet on a dirt strip?
Can wait to see that.



Username Protected wrote:
"Utility of a Turboprop and comfort of a jet"

Until the runway has water, snow, or ice on it.

Then the jet doesn't have the utility of the turboprop.

Mike C.

_________________
Former Baron 58 owner.
Pistons engines are for tractors.

Marc Bourdon


Top

 Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video
PostPosted: 21 Nov 2017, 09:15 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 10/05/11
Posts: 9553
Post Likes: +6410
Company: Power/mation
Location: Milwaukee, WI (KMKE)
Aircraft: 1963 Debonair B33
On the landings, it looked like all spoilers and brakes. I did not see TR buckets.

Does it not have TRs? What are the arguments against them?

_________________
Be Nice


Top

 Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video
PostPosted: 21 Nov 2017, 10:57 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 02/26/11
Posts: 482
Post Likes: +289
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Username Protected wrote:
On the landings, it looked like all spoilers and brakes. I did not see TR buckets.

Does it not have TRs? What are the arguments against them?


Complexity and weight primarily.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video
PostPosted: 21 Nov 2017, 11:01 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/29/08
Posts: 26431
Post Likes: +13064
Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
Username Protected wrote:
Who will bring their $10m jet on a dirt strip?
Can wait to see that.

Not me. I dont bring my PC12 into dirt strips.

I want the PC24 because it's big, has great range, single pilot and it looks awesome.... Oh and it has a cargo door.

Granted ice and wet runways will affect the performance of the PC24 but that's true for all jets so it's not really a ding to PC24. Planesense is already taking delivery of their PC24's.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video
PostPosted: 21 Nov 2017, 11:08 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 19252
Post Likes: +23615
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
Does it not have TRs? What are the arguments against them?

No thrust reversers. It is all spoilers and brakes.

The FJ44-4A has low idle thrust. TRs are extra weight and complexity. You don't get credit for having them in the landing numbers.

I'm not aware any FJ44 powered aircraft has thrust reversers. None of the CJ 525 series do, though some early pre FADEC models had "thrust attenuators", basically paddles in the exhaust stream. With a FADEC, you can more precisely control low RPMs and can profile the fuel flow for better acceleration for a go around. Both things allow lower flight idle power settings. Additionally, the FADEC gets the WOW switch (squat switch) so it knows when you are on the ground and it switches to ground idle some number of seconds after touch down automatically.

The PC-24 *may* have auto spoilers, activate on WOW. This increases drag and puts more weight on wheels for better braking.

Mike C.

_________________
Email mikec (at) ciholas.com


Top

 Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video
PostPosted: 21 Nov 2017, 11:18 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 10/05/11
Posts: 9553
Post Likes: +6410
Company: Power/mation
Location: Milwaukee, WI (KMKE)
Aircraft: 1963 Debonair B33
Thanks for the education. I appreciate it.

I'd heard you can't count TRs for runway numbers. Seems a shame to not be able to.

_________________
Be Nice


Top

 Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video
PostPosted: 21 Nov 2017, 11:19 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 19252
Post Likes: +23615
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
Granted ice and wet runways will affect the performance of the PC24 but that's true for all jets

So not the "utility of a turboprop".

Quote:
Planesense is already taking delivery of their PC24's.

Funny, it isn't even certified yet. They say "by year end".

Planesense has serial #101, HB-VSB, registered to it, just one plane, but Pilatus flies it, so not really "delivered" and clearly not an operational part of Plansesense's fleet.

84 sales/positions which is claimed to be 3 years of production. By that measure, it will take Pilatus a decade to reach the same number of CJ4s Textron has already delivered (~270).

Mike C.

_________________
Email mikec (at) ciholas.com


Top

 Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video
PostPosted: 21 Nov 2017, 11:22 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 19252
Post Likes: +23615
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
I'd heard you can't count TRs for runway numbers. Seems a shame to not be able to.

TRs may fail.

Similarly, you can't count on having both engines for takeoff.

Jets are held to a much higher standard when it comes to performance.

On the other hand, ABS brakes are always assumed to be working, which I never quite understood. What makes one system (TRs) not dependable, and another so (ABS brakes)?

Mike C.

_________________
Email mikec (at) ciholas.com


Top

 Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video
PostPosted: 21 Nov 2017, 11:24 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/29/08
Posts: 26431
Post Likes: +13064
Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
Username Protected wrote:
Granted ice and wet runways will affect the performance of the PC24 but that's true for all jets

So not the "utility of a turboprop".

Quote:
Planesense is already taking delivery of their PC24's.

Funny, it isn't even certified yet. They say "by year end".

Planesense has serial #101, HB-VSB, registered to it, just one plane, but Pilatus flies it, so not really "delivered" and clearly not an operational part of Plansesense's fleet.

84 sales/positions which is claimed to be 3 years of production. By that measure, it will take Pilatus a decade to reach the same number of CJ4s Textron has already delivered (~270).

Mike C.

The quote was from the video..... Not my quote. Send them a letter.

Pilatus is offering me a PC24. Delivery first of the year.

Top

 Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video
PostPosted: 21 Nov 2017, 11:34 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 10/05/11
Posts: 9553
Post Likes: +6410
Company: Power/mation
Location: Milwaukee, WI (KMKE)
Aircraft: 1963 Debonair B33
Username Protected wrote:
On the other hand, ABS brakes are always assumed to be working, which I never quite understood. What makes one system (TRs) not dependable, and another so (ABS brakes)?


Good negotiating?

_________________
Be Nice


Top

 Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video
PostPosted: 21 Nov 2017, 11:37 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 19252
Post Likes: +23615
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
Pilatus is offering me a PC24. Delivery first of the year.

How special you are that they are holding one of the first off the line for you instead of the 84 others who have already put money down on a contract.

Yeah, I believe that... sure... absolutely...

Go do it, then.

Mike C.

_________________
Email mikec (at) ciholas.com


Top

 Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video
PostPosted: 21 Nov 2017, 11:39 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 19252
Post Likes: +23615
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
Quote:
What makes one system (TRs) not dependable, and another so (ABS brakes)?
Good negotiating?

No, the practical fact that without ABS, jets would have terrible landing distances.

Mike C.

_________________
Email mikec (at) ciholas.com


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 59 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024

.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.Wingman 85x50.png.
.midwest2.jpg.
.aeroled-85x50-2022-12-06.jpg.
.Latitude.jpg.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.aircraftassociates-85x50.png.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.kingairacademy-85x100.png.
.one-mile-up-85x100.png.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.concorde.jpg.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.pure-medical-85x150.png.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.tat-85x100.png.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.Genesys_85x50.jpg.
.cav-85x50.jpg.
.Marsh.jpg.
.tempest.jpg.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.camguard.jpg.
.AAI.jpg.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.aircraftferry-85x50.jpg.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.dbm.jpg.
.lucysaviation-85x50.png.
.chairmanaviation-85x50.jpg.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.avionwealth-85x50.png.
.ei-85x150.jpg.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.Rocky-Mountain-Turbine-85x100.jpg.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.daytona.jpg.
.Foreflight_85x50_color.png.
.SCA.jpg.
.avfab-85x50-2018-12-04.png.